Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/index.php)
-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Water in the oil pan (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18021)

The Arkansas Traveler 12-04-2014 01:48 PM

Water in the oil pan
 
We just got a 1960 hardtop. Looks to be all stock/mostly.
Came w/all of the paper work including the ROT sheet.
We are the third owners. Has not been driven in 12 years.
I would like to start it up and see what works and what does not.
I drained the oil. The first pint was water from condensation I suppose. The water was clear, without coolant, so I feel there is not a bad seal or gasket. I thought I might refill the oil and change the filter out a couple of times. Drain the fuel tank and blow out the lines and replace the filter. Coolant is topped off.
I want to squirt some oil into the cylinders and hand turn the engine, so to see if it is locked up or not.
What suggestions and thoughts would the group make about the inital start-up that I am forgetting or do not know. I just dont want to screw something-up

simplyconnected 12-04-2014 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arkansas Traveler (Post 88187)
...Has not been driven in 12 years...

Take lots of pictures as you go:
If this were my purchase I would also check the transmission fluid. If you see water, change your trans oil. It takes ~11 quarts.

Replace your motor oil with fresh. Put your damper pulley on TDC, remove the distributor cap and pay attention to where the rotor is pointed (should be #1 or #6 spark plug tower). Then, mark where the distributor housing is against the block, remove the distributor and rotate the intermediate shaft (that drives the oil pump) counter-clockwise for a good five minutes. This shaft is 1/4" hex. What ever you do, don't drop any tools down your engine. Run your drill motor in reverse to get counter-clockwise rotation. You should feel a lot of resistance while running the drill motor. This means you are making pressure. When done priming the oil pump, return the distributor and re-check your oil for water, etc. If the distributor won't fall all the way down, it means your oil pump shaft isn't aligned. Simply rotate the engine about 1/3 turn whilst gently pushing down on the distributor. It will drop all the way down. Rotate crank to TDC, see if the rotor points to #1 or #6 tower, re-check your timing marks on the block then tighten the distributor hold down bolt.

Now, pull all the spark plugs and liberally spray LIGHT OIL (like WD-40) to fog all the cylinders.

With the plugs still out, remove the "+" wire on your ignition coil and crank the starter to distribute oil all over your engine. There should not be a load on the engine at all. If you sense a big drag or hear unusual noise, there is something wrong. Do not go any farther until you find out what is wrong.

If the rotations sound good, do this for about a minute. Re-check your dip stick. If you find water or foamy oil, drain the oil again. Water will wipe out your bearings. A small amount of water will simply evaporate when the engine gets hot.

Then install the plugs, return the coil wire, and start the engine. If you follow this procedure, you will have done everything possible to preserve your engine and transmission. Good luck and I hope everything is good. I can't emphasize checking your oil frequently. The engine is an "unknown" and as such you should err on the side of caution. Make your first trips short just in case you need to stop the car and return it to your garage. Make your subsequent trips longer and longer.

I'm concerned about old gas in your tank. If you smell foul gas, DO NOT run your engine. Gas evaporates leaving varnish. If varnish gets to your carb, you may have big problems. Most of us buy new gas tanks for $200 if that happens because you can never get the old tank cleaned enough to be dependable. - Dave

YellowRose 12-04-2014 04:06 PM

Water in the oil pan
 
Hi Russell, glad to see you posting and enjoyed the conversation earlier today. There are a number of things that I want to suggest you consider. First of all, if the previous owners did not give you the 1960 Shop Manual, you should order one. Which leads me to the next subject. All of the major Tbird parts houses contact info are located in the Advertisements Forum. You should call them, or email them and ask for a copy of their free catalogs. You will need to for price comparing and parts availability. Rock Auto is a member of this Forum, and many of us get our Tbird parts from them because they give us a 5% discount. That discount can also be found in the Advertisements Forum.

Regarding the gas tank, the car has been sitting for 12 years, and if it is the original tank, you may want to take off the old one, save yourself a lot of headaches with it, and put on a new one. Maybe even run new hoses instead of trying to blow them out. Over the many years of the life of this car, that tank is probably pretty gunked up. I had mine cleaned out, and it lasted about a year and then started rusting out and leaking on me. So I put on a new tank. Our tanks are made in Canada, and you can buy one off eBay, or Rock Auto even has better pricing, plus your discount. So you might want to get a new gas tank, new fuel sending unit in the tank, lock rings, and gaskets, and maybe even new tank straps if they need it. Also, run a good ground off the flange of the tank to the car body.

The electrical diagrams for your Tbird are in the Technical Resource Library. So check them out and print them out. Thanks for the comments you have made to me regarding our Forum and how helpful you have found it to be. Good luck with the work on bringing her back to life again, and thanks for saving her. Have you given her a name yet?

I see that Dave ~ simplyconnected, just gave you some terrific advice on checking out the engine! I told ya he was good! He also commented, as I did, about getting rid of that gas tank and putting a new one on.

The Arkansas Traveler 12-04-2014 05:47 PM

So much good information
 
I appreciate all of the square advice. (pun intended) you all enforced what I suspected about the tank. A bit of work, but I think a replacement w/lines and gaskets will save a lot of headaches in the future. The good news is that I am not in a hurry, so I can work through all of the advise and feel good about the process. About the distributer not settling in upon the reinstall. I burned up a good F-engine in a 74 landcruiser that way. Was that an expensive heartbreaker/lesson! No name for her yet. She'll let me know when we get to know each other a bit better. You folks are the best.

simplyconnected 12-04-2014 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arkansas Traveler (Post 88191)
... About the distributer not settling in upon the reinstall. I burned up a good F-engine in a 74 landcruiser that way...

Ford FE engines are more forgiving. If the distributor is up, the hold-down bolt isn't long enough to fit into the hole.

The intermediate shaft is a hex but the cam turns at half speed of the crank. So, if the hex is off, 1/3 crank turn should let it drop. You can hand-crank or bump the starter.

Ray is right about the Shop Manual. They are much cheaper than GM books and all of our vendors have them. - Dave

The Arkansas Traveler 12-05-2014 09:40 AM

the factory manual
 
I lucked out and the previous owner supplied me w/ the factory manual as well. I think they got it through Larry's. It came w/ some of his cataloges and price sheets from the 90s'. I was pretty excited to see it come w/the bird.Last night I sent santa a letter requesting the fuel tank.

The Arkansas Traveler 12-08-2014 10:12 AM

"avoid the screwdriver through the filter"
 
So I knew it was gonna be tough, but I had no idea. I went to remove the oil filter. Tight of course. I have pulled many of these things and have used various methods through out the years. I try to avoid the screwdriver through the filter as a last result. Patience is best while in this situation. In the end I had to take the filter bracket off of the block. Once I had it in a vice it was still tough. Made a blood sacrifice and off it came. Maybe they forgot to oil the gasket? Maybe it's been a long time since the last change. I'll dip and clean the bracket well before it's return. After careful study of the crud on my dipstick and the oil in the drain pan, I may go ahead and drop the pan for a good cleaning as well.
I thought about plastic-guaging the bearings while I am down there, but that seems excessive for the time being. Thoughts?
The wire to the oil pressure sensor. Does that just pull off? Little "L" shaped plastic connector. spins as one unscrews the sensor.

jopizz 12-08-2014 10:52 AM

I would not recommend disturbing the bearings. I would get the engine running so I have a better idea of the overall condition. I do recommend replacing the oil pump and cleaning out the sump while the pan is off. Your pan is probably loaded with sludge.

The oil sender wire should just pull off. It does not screw on.

John

The Arkansas Traveler 12-08-2014 05:03 PM

getting a new heart and blood
 
I have the new oil pump along w/ gaskets in hand. I will take your advice and stay out of the bearings at this time. Kinda like getting a new heart and blood transfusion at the age of 54. :) Thanks again.

simplyconnected 12-09-2014 12:28 PM

John, if he suspects water in his bearings, why not look at them? I mean, he already has the pan and oil pump off and out of the way... The caps are right there. Just askn'. - Dave


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