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-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Master cyl. bleeding (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6078)

rhertel 02-28-2009 06:46 PM

bleeding
 
You have to remove the master cylinder and do it off the car.

The bleed procedure for non front wheel drive and non abs brake vehicles , you alway start the farthest wheel from the master cylinder and finish at the closest.

Rich

1960Bird 02-28-2009 07:54 PM

Thanks Everyone...
 
I'll let you all know how it goes.

KULTULZ 02-28-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protourbird (Post 29073)

The ONLY way you can reliably bleed the master is to bench bleed it with a bench bleed kit. You can pump the pedal until you're blue in the face but if there's air in there only a bench bleed will get it all.

Please explain (to me) how a master cylinder can only be bled on the bench (as long as it is at level on the chassis)? I understand the return line kit, but not the bench. I am dumbfounded here...

tbirds8 02-28-2009 09:07 PM

You might need a helper but you CAN bleed this on the car????????????

KULTULZ 03-01-2009 09:14 AM

Let me try this again...

The MC is more easily bled off the car if being replaced. But it can be bled on the car say if one runs it out of fluid while bleeding the system.

There are quick kits available that replace the actual brake lines (nylon fittings and tubing) and return the expelled flushed fluid from the MC back into the reservoir bowl(s). One can also fashion a similiar device out of an old brake line. Try to keep the return line below the actual bowl fill line so as not to make a mess and not to ingest air on the return stroke.

Once the hard pedal is realized, you simply remove the adaptor and connect the brake line(s). Bleed the lines again to insure no air was ingested while replacing the brake lines.

JohnG 03-01-2009 09:29 AM

Question: What did a Ford mechanic do back in 1958??? No "bleed kits" then that I know if - I think these began to appear in the 70s.

rhertel 03-01-2009 11:26 AM

bench
 
When the master cylinder is mounted on the car, the cylinder bore never completely bottoms out. Thus the is always a high possibility of air left in the system. If the master runs out of fluid while bleeding, there is alway some fluid left in the m/c bore.
This type of bleeding with no fluid return has only been recommended for the last several years. Today when you purchase a new or rebuild m/c, there are plugs in the box. Why we like the type of bleeding, is when you finish bleeding the cylinder on the bench, you leave the plug in the master, and the is no fluid dripping during the transfer.

With a single m/c, you could problem get away with doing the bleeding on the car, but why take a chance. For those that have to bleed brakes alone, the do sell self bleeding wheel cylinders bleeder screws. They allow fluid to be pushed out, but not to return. You would swap out the bleeder with these, slightly open the bleeder for the wheel to be bleed. Put a piece of hose on the end of the bleeder and into a container. Pump the brakes, fluid and air will come out, but the stop fluid and air from returning. Close that bleeder and move on to the next. They look like regular bleeders, so there would be no point deductions.
Hope this help clear things up.
Rich

KULTULZ 03-01-2009 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnG (Post 29104)

Question: What did a Ford mechanic do back in 1958??? No "bleed kits" then that I know if - I think these began to appear in the 70s.

Most likely stood around and argued like we are doing... :)

In a garage, you will have mechanics that have been taught different ways at different shops. For one to actually open a shop manual would be a sign of weakness. So then you always get a couple that will put them in a vice, fill them up and proceed to see how far they can shoot brake fluid across the shop.

You will get used to it.

rhertel 03-02-2009 12:39 PM

Pressure bleeeding
 
Yes they did have bleed tools in the 50's. Pressure bleeders, a big roll around assembly that was full of brake fluid and had a fitting to insert shop air. You would put the adapter that was made for you particular m/c, add pressure to the tool, and force bleed the brake system. I still have one, up in the attic and has not been used for years.

That is in the shop manual.

Rich

Yes every one has learned different techniques through the years, but it is nice to share new ways of doing things.

1960Bird 03-02-2009 05:42 PM

The 1960 Shop Manual says...
 
After all this I dug out my 1960 Shop Manual.

Group 10-6 Section 3 of the Shop manual

"To Install the New Master Cylinder..."

"Install the brake fittings, gaskets and bolt on the forward end of the cylinder. Do not tighten the Brake Bolt.

Fill the master cylinder reservoir with heavy duty brake fluid to within 1/2 inch of the top of the filler neck.

Push down on the brake pedal several times to let the air escape from the cylinder at the fitting, and then tighten the brake bolt"

The Shop Manual shows that the Brake Bolt is the Banjo bolt that connects to the front of the master cylinder.

The Shop Manual also has instructions for pressure bleeding of the brake lines with some sort of a pressure bleeder that you charged the pressure tank with 10-30 pounds of air pressure.


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