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  • #61
    Originally posted by Hawkrod View Post
    You are definitely over thinking it. The build sheets were literally garbage. They served no purpose after a car was built. They were left in the car only because it was cheaper and easier than paying to have trash hauled away. They were never meant to last or even ever be seen again after a car was built. Hawkrod
    Gotcha Hawkrod....Thanks.....
    "one man's trash is another mans treasure...."

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    • #62
      Last squarebird??

      I have been in contact with Kevin Marti's office of Marti Auto fame. I talked with Christy, because Kevin was busy. She told me that when Kevin obtained all those boxes and boxes of Ford production records directly from Lois Emminger before she passed away last year, that the 1950's-early 1960's Tbird records were not there. She did NOT have them. He met with her personally to obtain them. Because of her advanced age she was no longer able to do anything with them.

      Christy did say they have some 1962-1966 records though. So for some of you with Bulletbirds, and Flairbirds that might want to get more history on your cars, contact them and give them your VIN number. They might have something on your Tbird. The telephone number listed on the post by Hawkrod is no longer correct. The area code has changed, but the main number is the same. It is now 623-935-2558.

      Also, Phil Skinner has left for Dearborn, MI this morning to look for more Edsel records. He is going to make it a point to look for the Squarebird records also while he is there. He also gave me another lead to a company that supposedly has all this information on microfiche.. Does anyone know who the National Auto Theft Bureau is today? They changed their name and I cannot find the new one. Yet.. Phil also said...

      "Unfortunately, the daily production records showed the number of cars produced, but not the individual reports. Now, I have heard there are two possible sources for production data, but access is tough.

      First, one rumor is that all of the IBM punch cards used to schedule production were put on microfiche. Only a rumor, but my main quest has been for Edsel, so hopes are if I find one, I can find the other. Second is that copies of all invoices were put on microfiche starting with the 1960 model year, and sent to the National Auto Theft Bureau in Chicago, IL. While that organization has changed names, there is a possibility that these records may exist. Still not as good as the Broadcast form. The scheduled date on the data plate (in this case, 13W) is rarely the day the car came off the line.

      I have a broadcast form that was pulled out of a 1962 T-bird. It is attached to a 1962 Lincoln Continental. They have consecutive rotation numbers, but their unit sequences are way off (to be expected, two different lines) and their scheduled dates are something like a week apart! The date on the plate is good for having a birthday party, but when the car came off the line, the only way to tell is with the broadcast form. (Greg refers to it as a ROT sheet, either term is correct).

      I am at the airport getting ready to head to Dearborn where I will have two days in the archives. I will try to locate the T-bird production records and get copies. When I get back I will also make a copy of the '62 Tbird sheet, even though it isn't 1960, it will still be interesting.

      By the way, I have three other cars in my files with build dates of 13W and two of them have higher unit numbers than this one. (Gregs)

      0Y71Y192592 63A M 84 13W 4 3 at Kruse Auction, LV 11/06 purchased new by Stardust Hotel
      0Y71Y192812 63A M 84 13W 4 3 found on E-bay, in Nebraska 8/06
      0Y71Y192834 63A M 86 13W 4 3 Parted in S. Calif, 1980's, (data plate still exists)

      BTW, I also found the Edsel daily production records in Dearborn. These listed how many of each model/body style were built at each plant each day. However, even those records are a bit skewed, so realistic documentation will be tough to locate."

      I just got an email from Kevin Marti saying that he doesn't know of anything further he can do to help us find more information on the car.

      The story continues... The bulldog is still on the hunt!
      Last edited by YellowRose; April 22nd, 2009, 01:40 PM. Reason: Additional comments

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
      "It's Hip To Be Square"
      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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      • #63
        I thank both Phil and Ray very much as this is really getting interesting now!!! I do have a question that just does not make sense to me and if someone can help me out...THANK YOU! Here it is: If Sept. 13 1960 was the last day the squarebird came down the assembly line (I believe that is 100% correct), then how can a car with that stamping on the vin tag refering to when the car is slated to be built (order made??), last day, be built before then???????? This just makes no sense to me. I can see the reverse happening: i.e. that a car with a build date stamping in Jan getting built 5 months later. That I can see as the line is still producing cars, but they totally stopped making the squarebirds at the end of 13W (except for the 2 stainless steel cars, which broke the stampings). Confused on this one!!!!! The examples that have been shown to me all deal with later production than what the stamped date indicates. Not possible here (as far as what little brain I have left can tell!)
        Greg

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        • #64
          Please excuse....I missed Hawkrods explaination on how the date could have been built earlier. This is very interesting!!! Would have loved to have been there to watch this orginized chaos happen!! Hawkrod, did you work on an assembly line or knew someone who did?? You seem very knowledgable. One thing, just thinking, would the inscription on the door panel be proof that the car was built on 9/13? I would like to at least try and clear that one up. The more I dig into this the more loose threads I find YIKES!!!!!!!!! Stop the insanity! This is fun!
          Greg

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          • #65
            I agree, DON'T GIVE UP! I found someone else's ROT sheet in my '60 Bird years ago when I was installing some new carpet. I tracked the owner down (using the T-Bird Scoop), and he couldn't have been happier!! I felt it was the right thing to do.

            So maybe someone will find your ROT sheet (in another car) some day down the road? Who knows. Just don't give up. I will admit though, when I 1st read this thread I was just thinking the door panel note & Shamrock could have simply been the "Last Day" for this assembly line WORKER. I do not think that is the case now (after seing all the pics & reading this entire thread).

            Happy hunting,
            Jon

            P.S.
            Make sure you read BOTH pages of this OLD thread on ROT sheets as well. http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ead.php?t=5183
            sigpic
            The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

            VTCI Member#6287.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by trim code 76 View Post
              Please excuse....I missed Hawkrods explaination on how the date could have been built earlier. This is very interesting!!! Would have loved to have been there to watch this orginized chaos happen!! Hawkrod, did you work on an assembly line or knew someone who did?? You seem very knowledgable. One thing, just thinking, would the inscription on the door panel be proof that the car was built on 9/13? I would like to at least try and clear that one up. The more I dig into this the more loose threads I find YIKES!!!!!!!!! Stop the insanity! This is fun!
              Greg
              I did not work on the line but have known quite a few people who did. My stint with Ford was very short as I started my own vintage Ford parts business in the early 1980's. I have been doing this for a little while now! LOL. As far as my knowledge, I started researching this type of stuff when I was the technical advisor to the Cougar Club of America in the early 80's and then got deep into it when I started researching early V8 Fords. I had motivation in the fact that a close family friend was Lorin Sorensen (google him) and his words of support and suggestions drove me on (whether he realizes it or not!). I have written a couple of specialty car books, been a constant contributor to many magazines and helped review some of the Early V8 Ford Club restroration guides. I have spent a reasonable amount time in the Ford archives as well as the Detroit Public Library National Automotive History Collection section as well as buying up old paperwork. I have been buying documents long enough now that I was able to get a lot of stuff before it had real value. I even managed to buy up all the persanal paperwork from Ermie Immerso's estate (another one to Google, he was Carroll Shelby's shop foreman) and got quite a bit of Ford internal documents related to the 1960's racing program See the picture posted below, note it is a xerox that is signed off on by Ford engineers and execs, I have stacks of this stuff, not all of it is as exciting though!. Hawkrod

              Click on image to see larger picture:

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              • #67
                Hawkrod,
                Most impressive I must say!!!! Thank you for all your help and info. I have had a couple of people say, Alan Tast being one, that the writting on the door panel could have been the last door panel set aside for a car in the trim area? BUT thought differently when he took into consideration that "trim code 76" is the rarest interior for the squarebird and probably mine was the only one to go through with that interior that day. So far I think that the door writting stating "last day, last car" is the hardest evidence, that coupled with the fact that that interior is super rare would give I think credit to the fact that that door panel was intended for my car. Hawkrod, what are your thoughts on the writting on the door panel? Excuse if you have stated before and I missed it. A ROT sheet sounds like it would help, I am just too afraid of hurting the carpeting. By the way, I have already checked with the second owner and have already recieved everything she had. I have all reciepts back to 1964 (oil changes, mufflers...) and that is where I got the registration (?) paperwork that is shown on the website made by Ray. Thomas Middelton was the original owner, was the head sound director for Paramount Studios and helped make "The Ten Commandments".. So I have run into a dead end there. I do have every registration piece of paperwork for each year of the car. Unfortunately i do not have the warrentie book. The owners book looks as it has never been opened. The car did come from "Hollywood Ford" of Hollywood CA. This is like the Enigizer bunny.....it just keeps going and going and going......LOL!!!
                Greg

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                • #68
                  This thread is so interesting to me. I find myself checking several times a day for more bits of info as this drama unfolds. I wish it was my car. So far we know for sure that the vin# doesnt always mean that #XXXX1 came off line before XXXX2. I think the writing on the door panel says a lot and because of the lack of production records from ford that it would be very hard to say that this is not the last bird built for 1960. I mean how many other birds out there have the distinction of having "last day, last car" written anywhere on them. The only thing that I can think of that would not make this the last car is this, Lets say 3/4 down the line the door panels go on. Yours is the very last car to have them installed but the car in front of yours got pulled after door panels to wait for something else making it the last car completed.

                  That being said, I think that the very last car was most likely a big deal for everyone building the squarebird and was treated a little special as dimonstrated by the shamrock placed by the carpet person and the writing on the door panel. Have you looked for any other hidden treasures, under the back seat, trunk mats, behind the dash?

                  I'll be waiting for the next episode of "The Last Bird"
                  Victor
                  59 HT, White on the outside, red and white in the middle.
                  Registry# 33154

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by trim code 76 View Post
                    I am just too afraid of hurting the carpeting.
                    At this stage in the drama, theres nothing else to do that to rip off that carpet. The world is waiting!
                    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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                    • #70
                      Anders I would tend to agree with your statement. This is somewhat like a soap opera only I think it should be called " Tbird-Gate "
                      Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada
                      Thunderbird Registry
                      58HT #33317
                      60 HT (Sold )

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                      • #71
                        Here's a cruel thought.... what if the fellow with the grease pencil were retiring or quitting the following day? He may have just been celebrating his "last day...last car". Possible?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hawkrod View Post
                          note it is a xerox that is signed off on by Ford engineers and execs, I have stacks of this stuff, not all of it is as exciting though!. Hawkrod
                          Hawkrod, I just about wet myself when i saw that image - Thunderbolt! Top of my automotive 'wish list' is building a Tbolt clone, problem is we never got two-door sedans down here in New Zealand so I'd have to import one, and even donor cars look like they're getting costy.

                          The closest I've come to owning one is looking at this model on by desk each day (it's not bent, it's lens distortion)

                          Any more cool Thunderbolt stuff you'd like to share, maybe start a new thread?

                          When I had a '64 Fairlane four-door sedan and a '66 500 390 hardtop I used to belong to the Fairlane Club of American, a guy in the club used to send me photo prints of national events, showing a line of Thunderbolts. Way cool.

                          Sorry to wander off topic

                          Alistair
                          Attached Files

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Dan Leavens View Post
                            Anders I would tend to agree with your statement. This is somewhat like a soap opera only I think it should be called " Tbird-Gate "
                            Hum....

                            How about "as the wheel turns"

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Wildcat15 View Post
                              Here's a cruel thought.... what if the fellow with the grease pencil were retiring or quitting the following day? He may have just been celebrating his "last day...last car". Possible?
                              Don't think its cruel at all, this is an investigation to the possibility OF the last production t-bird...historically speaking its had less than a handful of owners, if it WAS the last bird out the door - someone would know, make mention of it on a purposed sale...tell their kids/grandkids/neighbors/SOCIALIZING buddies... think about it....its those little secrets, rumors, gossip that will end up with some proof somewhere...Jimminey I hope so!

                              however, one must keep in mind the other artifacts found in conjunction, unless the fella was Irish, there would be no need for the Shamrock... ( well not thinking about the gum wrapper, LOL )
                              Last edited by Coral; April 23rd, 2009, 05:52 PM. Reason: some more rattlings

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                              • #75
                                Alistair, that is an incredibly luscious pile of books you have there!

                                What year is that restoration book?
                                Last edited by Coral; April 23rd, 2009, 05:55 PM.

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