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Another question on my 390 build

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  • #16
    RTV was developed by GE. I don't know if Permatex or Motorcraft actually makes it but the point is, regardless of color, you need RTV that is oil (and gasoline) resistant. Regular Silicone Sealant II bloats when exposed to oil, and causes a mess. I know from using it on a fuel tank sending unit. Secondly, only use what is necessary because the excess goes somewhere. You don't want pieces of RTV in your oil (which can plug small oil holes) or in your coolant (which can plug small coolant holes). All silicone is heat AND cold resistant, so it won't go away.

    Mike Gaffney is THE MAN when it comes to high performance FE engines. He is experienced and offers sound advice. Intake manifold gaskets are notorious for leaks in FE's and a gasket either seals (forever) or it leaks (almost immediately). The metal core inside is designed to maintain gasket rigdity and to prevent it from creeping. Here's an example of what you DON'T want:

    This gasket leaked coolant immediately. Even though the edges were trimmed beautifully, the flimsy Print-O-Seal partition moved a lot.

    Your new gasket won't do this if installed correctly.

    EDIT: Also notice someone used far too much BLUE RTV around the water hole. It's all balled-up and in pieces. All you need is a very THIN layer. - Dave
    Last edited by simplyconnected; April 1st, 2012, 04:10 PM.
    My latest project:
    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

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    • #17
      Originally posted by davidmij View Post

      I think someone said the blue RTV is not correct for the intake? I think I'm supposed to use the gray, which is high temp?

      -Dave J
      Blue Glue - http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...sket_Maker.htm - is not meant to be used internally in an engine.

      For those purposes, either BLACK RTV or a newer product, GRAY RTV.

      PERMATEX is a vendor for FORD CHEMICALS.

      The gaskets you have will work fine on a mild street engine. I always used PERMATEX #2 around coolant ports. No adhesive should be necessary for the intake gaskets. The instruction sheet that came with the gasket set will tell you how to go about it.

      IF using BLACK RTV on the end valleys, you might want to use a product such as this - http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...Supplement.pdf - as the OEM intake gaskets are held steady by the cork (or rubber) valley end gaskets. As mentioned, these are easy to screw up. Also make sure your PCV System is functional as the increased engine internal pressure will usually blow the rear one out first.

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      • #18
        BTW or PS-

        More concern for the gasket type is needed for an aluminum intake and/or heads. OEM cast iron does not present those problems usually.

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        • #19
          Thx all,
          I can see from your picture Dave that gaskets without metal would be prone to drift - and on the inside like that picture shows, you would never even know it during the assembly.

          Thanks for the info Gary. The blue permatex is what I used on the block plugs. I'll get a tube of the gray for the water seals on the intake and leave the rest of the surfaces clean.

          For the cross over exhaust ports (that I'm going to block off) I cut the flat bottom out of a coffee can and made small pieces to fit inside the gasket. Can I use the gray RTV to stick those in place on the intake manifold before assembly? I would let it cure so they won't shift. I can't imagine it would be good to sandwich those because that would change the thickness of the gasket slightly at that spot only. Is that correct?

          regards, Dave J

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          • #20
            Originally posted by davidmij View Post

            For the cross over exhaust ports (that I'm going to block off) I cut the flat bottom out of a coffee can and made small pieces to fit inside the gasket. Can I use the gray RTV to stick those in place on the intake manifold before assembly? I would let it cure so they won't shift. I can't imagine it would be good to sandwich those because that would change the thickness of the gasket slightly at that spot only. Is that correct?

            regards, Dave J
            While there are specialty gaskets offered without the heat riser passage, what you want to do is OK. I would use- http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...one_Gasket.htm -to seal the plate as the heated exhaust will want to burn through that immediate area.

            You must also consider if you are doing this to also either remove or defeat the heat riser valve in the exhaust inlet. If still operational and while closed, there will be an exhaust pressure buildup on one exhaust pipe side.

            For a normally driven street car, a functional heat riser is desired as it helps in cold ambient air conditions to improve drive-ability
            .

            The block off plates should be made from this galvanized stock cut slightly oversize in relation to the actual crossover runner size as you don't want them to blow out and be sucked into the engine itself.
            Last edited by KULTULZ; April 2nd, 2012, 05:01 AM.

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            • #21
              Thx Gary, I'm going to be putting some kind of headers on it, haven't found any that I know will fit a 59 T-bird yet. But yes, I'll eliminate the heat riser.
              I ran by Autozone after work yesterday and picked up the gray and red ultra Permatex I'll be using. We got a heavy snow last night so it'll be the weekend before I do my intake.

              thx to all, Dave J.

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              • #22
                - http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1978

                - http://www.fordpowertrain.com/FPAindex/Tbird1.htm

                See if the above will help.

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                • #23
                  Update and a question

                  The question is, do you have to use a bellhousing to engine block plate with a 390 and 4 speed toploader? Or can the bellhousing bolt right to the motor?

                  Update: Got the intake on quite seamlessly thx to all the good advice from you guys. I rigged my come-a-long to a rafter and lowered it down using two guide bolts in the head on one side. I could have gone a tad heavier on the 1/4 inch bead of ultra gray sealer but it still appears to have sealed nicely all the way across front and back.

                  Now I just have to find a lower Z-bar mount and push rod - I may have one lined up but not sure yet.

                  thx, Dave J

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                  • #24
                    Yes, the plate is needed. It (one of many reasons) establishes the setback of the trans from the clutch asm to arrive @ proper adjustment.

                    Make doubly sure that the pilot bearing you will be using (ball/needle preferably) is the correct size and that the input shaft rides in @ the proper depth.

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                    • #25
                      Thx Gary, I don't remember how it was on my 1969 belvedere back in 1976 when I replaced it's clutch, but I don't remember a plate.
                      When i bought my toploader the guy had a Lakewood clutch shatter plate that he threw in. If I didn't need it I was going to try to sell it. Looks like I'll be keeping it!

                      regards, Dave J

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                      • #26
                        H, I took tons of pictures, but I don't have one of the motor mounts attached to the block, and I can't find any online either.
                        Can anybody tell me which way they go on the block? Either with the open part of the "U" shape to the front, or to the back?

                        thx, Dave J

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                        • #27
                          Whoops!
                          Sorry, I found it on page 1-44, fig 56.

                          thx

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