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Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

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  • #16
    something you could take a quick look at just to add info is to see if there is an engine assy date stamped on it.

    Does anyone know if later models also had the same date stamp?

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    • #17
      The assembly date stamp would have been used at least into the 67-68 model year when the fed asked for the vin to be stamped in the engine. I've seen lots of flairbirds with the assy number stamped on the pad.

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      • #18
        It's hard to tell from the picture above. Where on the engine would I find this stamp?
        VTCI# 11860
        58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

        60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

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        • #19
          Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

          Look at your oil dipstick. Look down by the tube and you should see that very small rectangle shaped piece. The number should be on it. I had to clean mine off to see the number. I think it is there, but I could not tell for sure. It is a hard place to get to with a rag to clean that area off. Now, if that is a 390 engine and not a 352, I am not sure it will be there. The picture was for a Squarebird with a 352 engine.

          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
          '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
          "It's Hip To Be Square"
          Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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          • #20
            Rebuilding 4100 Autolite Carb

            I used a carb kit from Tomco (suggestion by Carl Heller) which included the secondary diaphram and cost about $24.00. Most other kits do not include the secondary diaphram. This kit comes with a good set of directions and is easy to install. I don't remember the kit number, but if you call them; a technician can help you.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post

              You may be using this Voltage Regulator (see inset). I need a better picture, but it looks like a 6-wire, external regulator, used on early alternators. If it turns out you aren't using it and your alt has an internal regulator, do as Eric suggests and remove this one.
              Here are some better pics of the voltage regulator. I don't see a model number on it like on GM versions. I'll have to pop it off and see if there are any number on the back.



              VTCI# 11860
              58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

              60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

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              • #22
                Here are the numbers for the carb kits I used - Harry is right the main carb kit did not contain the secondary diapraham and rod so I got those seprately. Not sure where he got the Tomco kit or the part # but mine were local (no shipping). I did use gas to go get them so about evenly priced I guess.

                Main Carb kit from O'Riley - Walker brand - 15255 - $18.99

                Secondary Diapraham and rod - NAPA - Echlin brand - 2-4241 - $9.45

                That fuel filter is a generic type but I like them. I actually have one on my car before the fuel pump. You can take them apart, clean them and re-use.

                Eric

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                • #23
                  Yep, you are definately using this Voltage Regulator so don't take it off.

                  Someone added this retrofit a very long time ago. This looks like an Electronic Voltage Regulator (made by Standard). Take a better picture of the wires on the bottom. It is probably wired like the diagram below, but I don't see the small Yellow/Black wire that should go to your GEN light. I can faintly see the letters molded into the plastic (I A+ S F).
                  Attached Files
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                    Here are the numbers for the carb kits I used - Harry is right the main carb kit did not contain the secondary diapraham and rod so I got those seprately. Not sure where he got the Tomco kit or the part # but mine were local (no shipping). I did use gas to go get them so about evenly priced I guess.

                    Main Carb kit from O'Riley - Walker brand - 15255 - $18.99

                    Secondary Diapraham and rod - NAPA - Echlin brand - 2-4241 - $9.45

                    That fuel filter is a generic type but I like them. I actually have one on my car before the fuel pump. You can take them apart, clean them and re-use.

                    Eric

                    Thank you for the part numbers. Should I also get the floats? Or do they usually not go bad.
                    VTCI# 11860
                    58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

                    60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                      Yep, you are definately using this Voltage Regulator so don't take it off.

                      Someone added this retrofit a very long time ago. This looks like an Electronic Voltage Regulator (made by Standard). Take a better picture of the wires on the bottom. It is probably wired like the diagram below, but I don't see the small Yellow/Black wire that should go to your GEN light. I can faintly see the letters molded into the plastic (I A+ S F).

                      Here are some more detailed pics of the voltage regulator:

                      The letters by the terminals read: I A S F and the unit is made by Standard. I am having no luck finding a replacement. I think I A S F is just a reference to the terminals and not a part number. Any idea what would be a suitable replacement?



                      Hereís the plug. Summit racing offers a replacement pigtail which I will be ordering because the terminals look rather corroded. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SMP-S94/


                      I definitely want to replace this unit. The terminals are all rusty.


                      I forget what this thing is called, but I always replace them when I change out a voltage regulator. I think it cuts down on electrical interference when using the radio.


                      Hereís closer shot of the alternator. Iíd like to replace this also. Can I get any Ford externally regulated alternator as long as it is rated the same amps as the factory generator?


                      Looks like a junction point


                      I havenít a clue what this box is.


                      VTCI# 11860
                      58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

                      60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

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                      • #26
                        Whoa... slow down... Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Clean up those contacts and put it back together. That alt may be old but it puts out TWICE the power as your original generator. AND, it probably works just fine for what you need right now. These parts are still sold at your auto parts store, but don't buy any. 'Standard' makes aftermarket electrical parts for the big three (and everyone else).

                        The cylinder with the wire is a condenser (capacitor- .22-uf) and it probably works just fine, too. You can measure capacitance with most good modern meters. They put these anywhere electricity cycles on-and-off (like at your points).

                        If you can't get your alt to work as it is, don't buy any parts. Only spend it on a new-type alternator that has an INTERNAL voltage regulator. Don't buy a one-wire, either. I like getting mine from the bone yard because they throw them out daily. For fifty bucks you can have a 130-amp Ford alternator, and use it on an electric fan (if that's what you want).

                        This...

                        is a relay box (for power windows, etc.) and is supposed to have a self-resetting circuit breaker where that Yellow wire is.

                        This...

                        is your starter solenoid. Disconnect the battery lead, take the solenoid off, and clean it good. The chassis is your ground on this device and you don't need rust,scale, or paint to interfere with a good connection. I like the #2 wires they used. Yes, the battery side is a junction for power to everything. Notice only one wire on one side... the starter motor wire. So the battery side is hot all the time, but the other side is only hot when the key is turned to 'start'. - Dave
                        My latest project:
                        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                        --Lee Iacocca

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                        • #27
                          OK Dave. I wont throw anything out just yet

                          Thanks for telling me about the "mystery" box on the firewall. Now I'll know what to check if my windows don't work.

                          My ducks are just about in a row. Once I finish collecting some more parts and there's a warm enough day to work outside. I'll see if I cant get this old girl running.
                          VTCI# 11860
                          58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

                          60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I just did a teardown on a 390. Part of 'restoring' means that you don't throw ANYTHING away until you are satisfied things are running the way you want. Lots of pictures and old parts, tell us loads of reference info.

                            Yeah, get it going first, and address each little 'thing' that needs to be restored, later. Did you check your fuel tank? Do that first (and keep open flames far away). - Dave

                            EDIT: Just last October, kevin_tbird had problems with his Power Seat circuit. He took a fantastic picture of what that relay should look like. Here it is:

                            The posts are a bit rusty, but you get the idea. Here's the schematic which includes this relay:
                            Last edited by simplyconnected; February 12th, 2012, 03:51 PM.
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

                              Like Dave, I am concerned about you starting your engine, Marcelo, without taking some precautions first. Unless you have drained that gas tank, taken it off, had it flushed out and treated, and put it back on, I would not put any gas in that tank and then try to start your engine. Any junk in that tank could be sucked up the gas line to the fuel pump, clog it up, or let it go through into your carb... If it were me, I would put some gas in a big glass jar or other container, and run a hose from it to the input side of your fuel pump and draw clean gas from it to see if the engine will kick over. If I am wrong about this, someone with more knowledge than I can knock me up along side the head for suggesting this.

                              My point is, IF you have a working fuel pump, and carb, you don't want to suck what gunk you might have in that gas tank into your fuel pump or carb and foul them up... If you have drained the tank, had it cleaned and treated, and back on the car, then draw your gas from it. I had to replace my gas tank with one that I got from one of our members here. Before I put it on, I took it to a local company that specializes in cleaning and treating gas tanks and they cleaned it out for me. Unfortunately, a couple of years later, this tank developed a leak, and I bought a new one.

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                              "It's Hip To Be Square"
                              Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                                I just did a teardown on a 390. Part of 'restoring' means that you don't throw ANYTHING away until you are satisfied things are running the way you want. Lots of pictures and old parts, tell us loads of reference info.

                                Yeah, get it going first, and address each little 'thing' that needs to be restored, later. Did you check your fuel tank? Do that first (and keep open flames far away). - Dave

                                EDIT: Just last October, kevin_tbird had problems with his Power Seat circuit. He took a fantastic picture of what that relay should look like. Here it is:

                                The posts are a bit rusty, but you get the idea. Here's the schematic which includes this relay:
                                I havenít looked at the tank just yet but my plan is this:

                                Since thereís a drain plug on these tanks and an access panel up top in the trunk; I was thinking of pulling the drain plug, draining the tank and sticking a garden hose through the access hole and flush out the crud. Do you think thatíd be a good enough method?

                                I will eventually be putting in a new tank, but I was hoping to do so after I have the whole undercarriage stripped repaired and painted. If you guys think that the method I mentioned above is still risky, than I will put a new tank at the top of my list.



                                On an unrelated note:

                                I changed out the gas tank on a 70 Buick GS I had. It was a pain. There was no drain plug, so the only way to drain the tank was with a pump siphon, and even using that, I couldnít get all the gas out. The reason why I had to drop the tank was because my sending unit failed. If there was an access panel in the trunk (like Iím picturing in the T-Bird) I could have replaced the sending unit without draining and dropping the tank. The new tank did not come with the filler neck, so I had to get the old one welded on. Sounds like this whole deal is going to be easier on the T-Bird. I wonder why automakers seem to have gone backwards in that regard? In the 50ís they had drain plugs and access panels and in the 70ís they decided to make things difficult.

                                I checked out your 390 project "Penelope" Good stuff!
                                VTCI# 11860
                                58HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37043 (Sold)

                                60HT - Thunderbird Registry Number: 37252 "Lucille" (Sold)

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