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  • Engine replacement

    In the next few weeks, I will be dropping the 430 out of my 60 and off to the machine shop to see if it is rebuidable. So far everything has been frozen solid. The carb looked like it came from the under world of Jaque Cousteau. The builder told me the 430's are uncommon and difficult and pricey for parts. He suggested a different engine. If it turns out not being able to be rebuilt, is it that hard to mount a 390 in there?
    "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

  • #2
    I know the 430 motor mounts are different. I thought they were welded in place but I could be mistaken. Anyway I don't think the parts are that much harder to find as most were used on later model Lincolns.
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • #3
      It is a major job installing a FE where a MEL lives. The motor mounts are different and the mounting bracket is welded in place. The transmission wont bolt to an FE so the mounts for that will need to be changed as well as another transmission and other odds and ends. There is virtually no performance parts for the MEL outside some FoMoCo parts that are rare. The MEL engine parts are available and the expense is in the pistons, about double that for an FE. The MEL was used thru 1967 in Lincolns.
      Have you driven a Thunderbird lately......

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      • #4
        Read thru the following thread, it'll give you some insight. There I attached some photos of the 430 engine mounting brackets that are welded in place. These brackets are bolted and welded to the FE engine mount tabs on the cross members on one end and welded to the frame on the other end.

        http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...r+mount&page=2

        I've sent you a private message.
        Last edited by GTE427; July 15th, 2010, 01:25 PM.
        Ken
        1959 J Convertible
        1960 J Hardtop

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        • #5
          Hi Martin,

          If it was me, I'd recondition the 430 even though the cost initially will be more than the 352.

          (1) You don't have to worry about any fabrications to the Mountings or the Transmission.

          (2) Once it's reconditioned you probably won't have to worry about it for a long, long time esspecially if it's going to be used as week-end car.

          (3) The 430 is unique to the T.Bird with only a limited amount that have them, I believe 2,500.

          Which ever way you decide to go, I wish you the best.

          Chris....From the Land of OZ.

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          • #6
            I'll just keep my fingers crossed that the core is in good enought shape to rebuild...Thank you everyone
            "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

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            • #7
              I'll add my vote to keep the 430. I've owned a '59 with 352 and now have the '60 with the 430. The performance difference is night and day. The 430 has stump-pulling torque and could smoke the tires all day (even running on 7 cylinders with stuck lifter and a bent pushrod)!
              John Orwin
              1960 HT 430
              VTCI #11290
              Tbird Registry #1590

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              • #8
                Gota say that 430 will even smoke a 390!!!

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                • #9
                  Talked to the builder today and he gave me a tour of the shop. This guy is really a detail type guy. He told me even if we had to re-sleeve it, it would be rebuilt...to the tune of $6,000!
                  "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If an FE motor won't hook up to the tranny, can you guys tell us what tranny is in the 430 powered cars?? Most of the FE powered TBirds have cruise-o-matics (COM) but hardly all.

                    Since we're on the drive train, what rear end do they have?

                    1958 Hardtop
                    #8452 TBird Registry
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                    photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                    history:
                    http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnG View Post

                      If an FE motor won't hook up to the tranny, can you guys tell us what tranny is in the 430 powered cars?? Most of the FE powered TBirds have cruise-o-matics (COM) but hardly all.

                      Since we're on the drive train, what rear end do they have?

                      Originally posted by KULTULZ

                      The 59/60 FE and MEL block bell pattern is the same...
                      CORRECTION- To be concise, that should read the 58/60 MEL bell pattern is the same as the FE. The 430 was redesigned in 1961 (LINC) and the bell pattern was changed.

                      ...and both the 59/60 FE and MEL BIRD uses the MX (a heavier version of the CRUISEOMATIC). The 430 MX will be calibrated differently from the FE MX.

                      FORD CRUISEOMATIC is the FX- LINC CRUISEOMATIC is the HX (TWIN -TURBO Dual Range)

                      The rear asm is FORD 9".
                      Last edited by KULTULZ; July 17th, 2010, 01:31 PM. Reason: CLARIFY AN INEXACT STATEMENT ON MY PART

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                      • #12
                        The 430 uses a larger version of the Cruiseomatic. The case is about 1/2" longer than the 352 trans. Ford shows model PBB-M or PBB-AF. If the data tag is still on the side maybe it should probably say PBB 7003 M (there may be other numbers).

                        430s came with 2.91 rear axle standard.
                        John Orwin
                        1960 HT 430
                        VTCI #11290
                        Tbird Registry #1590

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                        • #13
                          Thanks! Makes sense - more HP, more torque would require a beefier transmission.
                          1958 Hardtop
                          #8452 TBird Registry
                          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                          photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                          history:
                          http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post

                            The 59/60 FE and MEL block bell pattern is the same and

                            both the 59/60 FE and MEL BIRD uses the MX (MERC-O-MATIC Multi-Drive) (a heavier version of the CRUISEOMATIC).

                            The 430 MX will be calibrated differently from the FE MX.

                            FORD CRUISEOMATIC is the FX-

                            LINC CRUISEOMATIC is the HX (TWIN -TURBO Dual Range)

                            Originally posted by orwin View Post

                            The 430 uses a larger version of the Cruiseomatic. The case is about 1/2" longer than the 352 trans. Ford shows model PBB-M or PBB-AF.

                            If the data tag is still on the side maybe it should probably say PBB 7003 M (there may be other numbers).

                            430s came with 2.91 rear axle standard.
                            Both the 60 BIRD 352 and 430 use the MX as both were considered as performance engines and needed the extra capacity of the MX.

                            352-4V PBL-AH (Different Internal Calibration)
                            430 PBB-M
                            430 PBB-AF



                            LENGTH OF CASE

                            FX Small Size Case 9 7/8"L (CRUISEOMATIC DUAL RANGE)
                            MX Medium Size Case 10 7/32" L (MERCOMATIC MULTI-DRIVE)
                            HX Large Size Case (LINC 58/60) 10 7/8" L (TWIN-TURBO DUAL RANGE)
                            HX Large Size Case (LINC 61/65) 11.6" L (TWIN-TURBO DUAL RANGE)

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                            • #15
                              I have searched for and sourced many parts for the 430 Transmission and it definitely is different than the FE version. Of course the internal calibration is different, but a quick check of the MPC in the MX column will show many if not most of the internal parts are different than the FE, not only in Part # but in size when the dimensions are listed.
                              Carl

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