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430 waterpump question

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  • #16
    I'm at work right now, so these pics are "blocked" I'll try and log back on tonight when I get home.

    Something is definatley wrong though...

    Jon in TX (with 430cid Bird).
    sigpic
    The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

    VTCI Member#6287.

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    • #17
      Here are a few of my 1960 430cid pics:







      As you can see, there is a seperate front engine timing cover & a seperate water pump housing (just like a 352CID). W/o the correct timing cover, where do you mount the fuel pump on your 430cid?

      Yours is a different beast.

      -Jon in TX.
      Last edited by tbird430; February 1st, 2010, 06:43 PM.
      sigpic
      The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

      VTCI Member#6287.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by GTE427 View Post
        If this picture is taken from beneath the engine and those are oil pan bolts I see along side the oil filter, my guess is that you're looking at a Lincoln motor with the Crankshaft mounted power steering pump. I've yet to see a water pump mounted on the crankshaft...
        Ken, I agree. I am not familiar with a crank PS pump, but steel lines tell me, "high pressure". Now, I wonder if the PS low-pressure return line is that red hose.

        Another fact that makes sense is, when he tried to cap the line, it made bad noises. Well, a vane or piston pump would, not a centrifugal water pump.

        I still want to see more pictures of Claude's engine. It definately doesn't look like tbird430's engine because I don't see holes coming out of the 430 timing cover. The wire oil pan washers are strange to me, too. - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

        From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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        • #19
          The power steering is on the left side and the lines are black. It is not in the photo. The red hose is a heater hose. You have to remember I got this engine on a pallet with no lines or hoses. The steel lines running across the photos are Trans cooler lines I made. The line that you see with the hex head fitting is the one that comes from the bottom of the water pump. If you take that loose no water comes out, however if you start the engine water sprays under pressure. Maybe I can tie it in to a heater hose. My engine has the same wierd fuel pump on the top. I cant post photos but if someone wants to send me a PM with a email address I can take a bunch and email them to you.
          Claude

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          • #20
            Claude,

            I acknowlede that you've installed a belt driven PS pump. With all due respect, because a belt driven PS pump was provided and installed, this doesn't change the fact that Lincoln Cars in the 60's had Crankshaft mounted/driven PS pumps.

            From the pictures you've provided of the pump in question, that is a Power Steering Pump that you've connected to the cooling system. The pump is driven by a woodruff key on the crankshaft.

            See attached pdf from the Lincoln Land website. Hopefully the diagram will clear this up for you.


            Dave, I've seen those oil pan bolt retainers on early 60 Lincoln engines before, do not know the extent of the years they were used. If you have the chance to look under an original Lincoln you should see them, though it may be hard to look under a Lincoln thats not on a lift.
            Attached Files
            Ken
            1959 J Convertible
            1960 J Hardtop

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            • #21
              Yep! Hands down, you nailed it, Ken. Great documentation, too. It couldn't be clearer, that's exactly what Claude has. Thanks for the heads-up on the oil pan 'washers' too. I've learned a lot from this thread.

              For sure, you have a Lincoln motor (as you stated earlier), Claude.

              Take the water hoses off before water ruins the pump. That explains why it didn't leak when you disconnected the hose; this is a positive displacement pump. Without fluid, it will emit a growling noise. With fluid, it outputs serious pressure (which explains the high pressure hydraulic line). You can put a reservoir just about anywhere and still use this for your power steering. Might as well, it elliminates one squealing belt and looks cleaner. - Dave
              My latest project:
              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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              • #22
                Ken, Dave and Carl,
                Kens right. I finally found and talked to a mechanic that worked for Mercury/Lincoln in the 60's and he told me it is a 430. He said that he is not sure of the two exact years but he thinks in 63 and 64 or 65 Lincoln put a crank driven PS pump in some of the the Continentals. He can't remember why they quit using it but he said they had problems and were prone to leak and maybe thats why. He told me since I had already built the bracket and hooked up the PS with a belt that I should probably keep it, which I think I'll do. Thank god for old mechanics. I think this guy is in his 70's and its going to be a sad day for us all when the only people we can rely on for information wont know anything if they can't look up on the computer. I want to thank you all for your help. Now to get the top working.
                Claude

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                • #23
                  isn't that the P/S pump hose???

                  all I see is the P/S hose at the power steering pump.. mounted on the crankshaft.

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                  • #24
                    1958 Mercs used a crank driven pump also.

                    no belts to mess with and wear out, were very quiet,
                    my 58 merc witha 383 had crank driven pump. always tried to figure out a way tto use it as the engine oil pump when we ran the 383 in our 1958 Mercury stock car raer.

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