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64 bird 390, timing moves on startup

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  • 64 bird 390, timing moves on startup

    I knew i should have posted here before spending a dollar, but i did anyway. So, now on to u guys.

    Cranked motor, started rough running, timing lights way retarded, looks like -20. Cranked today looks like +20 running rough, when warmed up it settles around +8, where i set it.

    Normal for old technology? If not got a solution or an idea.
    Last edited by YellowRose; March 3rd, 2018, 06:13 PM.

  • #2
    The factory setting is 6 degrees BTDC. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying about +8 degrees. If your car is running rough it's nearly impossible to correctly read the timing. Rough running can be anything from fuel to spark to compression to timing. If it runs smooth after it warms up I would suspect a carburetor issue; either a misadjusted choke or a problem with the fast idle setting. Timing should always be set or checked with the car warmed up, vacuum disconnected from the distributor and plugged at the carburetor and at normal idle speed.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • #3
      I put it at 8. Now at idle it shows 22, seems to be running fairly smooth. That is with the vacuum advance hooked up sitting curbside. I did it with it plugged and then plugged it in and no change stayed steady at 8.
      It looks like it is on the mark for it to be at high idle but it is around 750 rpms. Book says 1500, im learning about the fast idle cam now so trying to also figure that out
      I havent put new points or condenser in, i did verify gap spec and dwell. It was sitting at 28 dwell, with timing at 8.

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      • #4
        The timing will always show higher than 8 degrees with the vacuum advance hooked up because the distributor is advancing the timing. 1500 rpm is a little higher than I like it to be with the choke closed. I usually set it around 1200 rpm. 750 rpm when the engine is cold with the choke closed is too low. Just turn the fast idle screw clockwise to raise the idle.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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        • #5
          Thanks for the reply, it is great to have a sounding board.
          Regards to advance, since the vacuum is taken above the throttle plates, there is very little vacuum to the distributor and no advance is added at idle. I tested it both ways to be sure, with the line disconnected and with it plugged in.
          Timing, I waited for the motor to warm, thermostat around 180, good and warm, used the idle screw to raise it to around 1200 rpm to get it warm. Lowered idle till it was back at 8 and no advance. Set timing based on book spec at 6 degrees and based on suggestion above, thanks.
          Then after warm lowered the idle to about 850rpm and adjusted the idle screws, (now that i wrote that i may have had the idle up to high and the throttle plates open). The idle screws are set to right at 1 turn out and very low smell or burning eye sensation from the exhaust.
          Vacuum started around 23in. As i played with the idle and the idle screw and the distributor, it is now down to 18.

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          • #6
            It also looks like the choke plate doesnt totally open straight down. It goes a little past 3/4 open and stops, i must need to put more tension on the spring to get it all the way open.

            Since having never driven and no experience to its driving behavior, what kibd of performance should this thing have.
            Should it roast a tire if you stomp the throttle?
            Currently doesnt even squeal, but it jumps and goes and you can really tell its got good juice on the kickdown above 25-30, jumps down a gear and rolls up with good power and then upshifts, feels just like an old 72 ford 360 used to, other than burning the rubber off.

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            • #7
              I was able to get the motor down to 490-500 rpm in drive, around 620 in park.

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              • #8
                In the morning will see if it keeps timing in spec. Ill qlso run the fast idle screw up to 1200rpm. Thanks again.

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                • #9
                  The choke plate should be straight up and down when it's hot. Did you loosen the screws on the choke and rotate it to see if it opens all the way. If it doesn't you have something binding or the rod is bent. Ideally timing should be set with the rpm as low as possible (550-650). As you mentioned I would recheck it again now that you lowered the idle. As for smoking the tires these are heavy luxury cars more than performance cars. As long as you have good pickup from a dead stop I would be satisfied with that and not push it.

                  John
                  John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                  Thunderbird Registry #36223
                  jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                  • #10
                    So when i get it warm, and the choke plate not open all the way, loosen screws and rotate the choke housing with the spring in it till the choke opens all the way?

                    I did recheck idle rpm, timing and dwell, all within spec now. But will also check in the morning.
                    Performance, yes we realize its a smile and wave to the ladies kinda car. Yep its got good drive from dead stop and no stumbles etc. We are not trying to push it per se, but really trying to get a good feel of what it can or cant do.

                    The biggest problem with driveability, is when it hits any kind of rough road it wants to dart around. Unsettling but u can drive it straight. Based on the steering u are driving a little right to go straight. Let go of wheel and it veers left slightly. Brake hard and it will pull right hard.

                    Im still rollin on 1971 bias ply tires, then we ni ticed there are only to be aired up to 25.
                    So im sure with a new set of modern tires, brakes adjusted ,and probably an alignment, it ought to work put pretty goood. We have stabilizer end links ready to put on and already replaced the 1964 ford shocks.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pollolittle View Post
                      So when i get it warm, and the choke plate not open all the way, loosen screws and rotate the choke housing with the spring in it till the choke opens all the way?
                      That's correct.

                      Originally posted by pollolittle View Post
                      The biggest problem with driveability, is when it hits any kind of rough road it wants to dart around. Unsettling but u can drive it straight. Based on the steering u are driving a little right to go straight. Let go of wheel and it veers left slightly. Brake hard and it will pull right hard.

                      Im still rollin on 1971 bias ply tires, then we ni ticed there are only to be aired up to 25.
                      So im sure with a new set of modern tires, brakes adjusted ,and probably an alignment, it ought to work put pretty goood. We have stabilizer end links ready to put on and already replaced the 1964 ford shocks.
                      Not only are bias ply tires going to give you a rough ride but if they are indeed 47 years old they are downright dangerous. Do yourself and everyone else on the road a favor and get a set of new radial tires asap.

                      John
                      John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                      Thunderbird Registry #36223
                      jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                      Comment

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