Steve's Ride

[Yadkin]

My builder, Kevin Bush, did a fantastic job on this motor, and had it in his shop for almost a year. The bottom end is completely balanced, and the cylinders bored 0.030 over. Extruded pistons, stainless valves, dual valve springs, hydraulic roller cam, roller timing set. We put a high volume oil pump in it and Kevin did a lot of improvements to the oiling system such as matching the bearings, smoothing out the galleries, careful control of the bearing clearances and putting 0.075 restrictions to the heads. It's designed to run on premium fuel and 15W-50 oil.

Kevin told me not to use the cork gaskets between the horizontal sides of the block and the intake manifold, because they leak like crazy. He said to use a fat bead of silicone instead, and let it cure for a day before setting the manifold. What's y'alls opinions on that?

[simplyconnected]

...Kevin told me not to use the cork gaskets between the horizontal sides of the block and the intake manifold, because they leak like crazy. He said to use a fat bead of silicone instead, and let it cure for a day before setting the manifold. What's y'alls opinions on that?

Yep! That's the way to do it. I use the same procedure on my Windsor's too. FE intake manifolds are notorious for leaking from the initial setup. I've seen guys cut the intake gaskets in pieces, trying to get them to not 'squirm' around the coolant holes.

If you look at the intake manifold bolts, they don't go straight down into the block (like Pontiac 389 bolts do). Instead, they are at a 45 degree angle (into the heads), trying to attain a downward pressure. So, the intake manifold actually 'walks' down the bolt heads to make a good seal. That's why it's important to leave it settle overnight. Another 'help' I do is to tap on the bolt heads to help them slide on the manifold as it descends. It's a poor design but you can make it work. Make sure you put the distributor in the hole before nailing the intake. The distributor needs to turn freely.

Horizontal gaskets in front and back, inhibit the manifold from descending, so leave them out. Oil has no pressure in these areas so the silicone does well. Make SURE you use silicone sealer that is 'engine oil' compatible. GE SiliconeII will bloat and make a slimy mess.

What length pushrods are you using? They will be about 1/2" shorter than stock.

Also, what rings are you using? - Dave

[Yadkin]

Every time an apostrophe is used to make a word plural, a puppy dies.

Back to serious issues. Dave, I have no idea what type of rings Kevin used. Heck I don't even remember what brand of pistons we used since it was so long ago. I'll get the build sheet from his wife later today, along with the final bill, and I'll let you know.

I won't know what length pushrod I need until I assemble the rockers. I hope to take most of the day off, get that done and order them.

I also need to figure out my oil pan. Kevin wants at least 6 quarts in this engine to keep the high volume pump happy. Rabodnick says the same thing, and in his book recommends just adding another quart. Kevin's concerned about the crank dipping into the oil bath (and so am I). Rabodnick doesn't address that. I'll be working on that piece of the puzzle as well.

[Yadkin]

Well isn't this just peachy. Apparently I'm the only person on the face of the earth who has combined a Comp hydraulic roller lifter set with a PRW adjustable rocker arm set. I can't find an off-the-shelf pushrod.

The stud on the rockers is a 3/8" diameter ball, and the cup on the lifter, I'm not sure, and I have no way to accurately measure it. It appears to be is less than a hemisphere and the OD measures at 9/32". The hole on the bottom messes up my depth gauge and I consistently get 5/32 for that, which is impossible, unless it's not spherical. Assuming it is a portion of a sphere it's got to be 9/32" or slightly larger, say 5/16".

The big problem is I need a cup-ball pushrod. That limits my selection dramatically. The rods are non-oiling and the rocker squirts oil onto the cup; it wouldn't work so well with a ball there.

PRW ships two length checkers with their kit so I'm able to measure the required length, which is 8.55: overall or 8.45" effective.

I have calls into both companies tech lines. I already stumped Summit Racing.

[simplyconnected]

Don't fret, Steve. Custom-length pushrods are common and we have a company that makes them here, in Detroit.

No, you're not the only one. Penelope's 390 has a Comp Cams (XR270HR-10) roller, Morel FE hyd. lifters (.875") AND I'm using the stock non-adj. rocker arms and shafts. That means the lifters MUST adjust all the lash. And why not? That's what stock lifters did.

Don't forget to change your distributor gear. If you aren't sure, call Comp (901-795-2400) in Memphis.

Don't worry about the extra oil capacity. Your HV oil pump will only deliver (flow) what the engine will take. Remember, pressure IS resistance to flow. As a result, flow at idle speeds will be better because the HV produces higher flow & psi at all ranges up to the spring tension of your pressure relief valve. You have restricted the rocker arms which in effect, chokes off oil demand. Your oil pressure will remain high but all the extra pressure will relieve back into your oil pan (at the pump). The downside is, your distributor gear will work harder to sustain high oil pressures throughout the rpm range.

We can get real technical about crankshaft splash. New cars use 5W-20 oil, to reduce engine drag and to increase gas mileage. The thought is, nothing is more expensive than gas, not even an engine overhaul.

In the old 'unrestricted rocker shaft' days, they believed a quart of oil was perpetually on top of the engine, especially during sustained highway trips. Ok, so throw another 1/2-qt in... Your engine will run forever being a 1/2-qt low. Y-block guys had the same deal. (I restricted my Y-block shafts, too.)

Take more pics of your engine.

BTW, I use apostrophes to show ownership and to represent absent text. - Dave

[Yadkin]

What's the name of the company? I found one in Oregon.

What sucks is that I am to install this engine in the car on Monday, and now that ain't happening.

[simplyconnected]

I will get back with you on the name of that company. It's on the north east end of town. I could take you there but the name escapes me right now.

You can still drop the engine in. All it needs is an intake (which needs to go on before pushrods are installed).

Personally, I don't drop any engine in until I run in a cradle first. The engine plant does it the same way. You can't imagine how mad they get over at the assembly plant when a car rolls off the line and the engine, trans or RE isn't right. There's no excuse for that, either. Two guys (one up, one down) remove and replace four engines, and they're done for the day. The engine plant is happy to pay the assembly plant for their time, X4.

This is a new engine. Take your time and do it right. You will be glad, later.
I can't see from the pics but do you have hardened washers under the head bolts and valve springs? - Dave

[Yadkin]

The head bolts are ARP, and Kevin did the assembly that is pictured, so yeah everything is done right.

I don't have a cradle. I borrowed Kevin's from an FE truck motor to carry it over here, and the side mounts are in different locations so we had to use some wooden blocks just to keep in place in the 4 mile journey to my garage. Even if it bolted up, it's way too flimsy to run an engine on.

If I can find pushrods by Thursday afternoon then I can put them in on Friday and get the rest of the engine assembled. I don't have the weekend to work on it because my wife has made other plans. I'll build a transport cradle out of a 2x8, two long pieces cross wise connected by two shorts to make a box that the oil pan flange will sit on, and that will get it to the car. Then I'll crane it and set it in the car on Monday.

Along with doing that I need to see if my headers are going to fit. I have a new set of Sanderson that mount on the engine and fit like they were made at DIF along with the heads. My initial measurements though show the passenger side will contact the frame. If so I'll have to bolt on the log manifolds and make it work that way. I'll probably end up doing that anyway for the initial start-up anyway because the old exhaust is still in the car, and I can bolt that up and have a quiet start instead of abusing the neighborhood.

[Yadkin]

Rings are Hastings 2M574.03.

[Yadkin]

Dave your pushrod place is probably Trend Performance. They have a distributor in Asheville, NC, 2.5 hours driving distance from me so I called them. They don't have them but their plant in Michigan can make them, and they gave me a person to contact. I called there and left a message but he did not call back after 2 hours, so Kevin told me to call Smith Brothers in Oregon. They answered the phone and will make them and ship them out today, and I'll get them on Friday.

[simplyconnected]

Steve, I just got home. My pushrod guy is:

Mall Tooling & Engineering Inc
150 Grand Ave., Mt Clemens, MI 48043
(586) 463-6520

What's your lifter preload? Are you using the splash pans or not? <--this makes a difference.

I can plainly see you have ARP bolts from the pics but I asked if you have hardened washers. That's more important to me than the brand of bolts. Let's face it, Ford made their own head bolts back in the day and they lasted forever. Now, you're using aluminum heads with steel bolts. That can be a recipe for disaster later on if you don't use the washers (don't ask me how I know).

Hastings 2M574-30 tells me you have Moly rings and they are .030" over. That's exactly what you want. The end gap depends on the type of piston alloy used. If you used hypereutectic alloy (like I did, and modern cars use), more heat transfers through the ring, so it needs a much wider gap.
When filing a top ring, it broke in my hand. Hastings overnighted a new one to me for free, and I installed it the next day. I love service like that, and it only comes from an American supplier. - Dave

[Yadkin]

Thanks Dave, but as I posted earlier Smith will make them for me and ship them out today. I'll have them on Friday, and I can make my deadline.

I'm not sure of the preload; I think he said 150# or so, but the spring pressure at full open is 325#.

Now I see why you asked about the washers. Several folks have commented on the "aluminum" heads as well. Except that they are the original DIF cast iron heads. Yeah, he did that nice a job surfacing them. Kevin's a craftsman.

And yes, I'm using splash pans. I had to get new ones since the bent pushrods destroyed the originals.

[Yadkin]

This is a close-up of the driver's side, showing the FoMoCo on the right and the DIF on the right. I just love the impressions of the screw heads on the casting numbers. I'll get some paint on it after I'm done messing around with it.

By the way, what does DIF stand for? I always thought it meant Dearborn Iron Foundry, but some say it's Detroit Industrial Factory, or something similar.

[simplyconnected]

Steve, I worked in Dearborn Iron Foundry in 1971. The Rouge had two foundries at the time, Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF) and Dearborn Specialty Foundry (DSF or 'the spec. foundry'). Cleveland Iron Foundry (CIF) and Windsor Casting Plant (WCP) were our closest neighbors. Every one of these plants are gone, now.

Writers are notorious for mis-naming places, especially if they were never there. Some may be GM or Chrysler writers who don't understand the Ford system of factories. Here is a picture of what it looked like from public property across Miller Rd. from the plant:

The 'business' end is on the other side, inside the Rouge. It's dismal outside and much worse inside. 95% of the workers were black with a spattering of German and Italian bosses. Now you understand. Those tall smoke stacks in the background belong to the Powerhouse; large enough to light Boston, but it ran 17 factories without depending on Detroit public utilities which regularly failed. Now, it is gone as well and the 'old man' is rolling in his grave.

Somehow I missed the fact that you are using iron heads. All castings were shot peened before leaving DIF. Your finished head looks just like that with the exception of a tiny little, hardly noticeable, shade of rust behind one exhaust flange.

The screw head slots are changeable details from the sand core machines. It's a quality thing so DIF people knew what shift, which core machine, date and which engine it goes to. You wouldn't believe how many cores make up an engine. DIF made many V-8s including the 400M.

Maybe it's my eyes but I don't see the splash shields behind your rocker arms. They prevent oil from picking up intake manifold crossover heat. In your case, they are necessary but they also mount under the rocker shaft towers, which lifts the rocker shafts up.

Now that I led you around the barn, I wasn't looking for spring pressures. I was asking about your lifter preloads. This is important, and you need to get it right. The best site to describe lifter preload is this one:
http://www.gregsengine.com/lifter-in...djustment.html or CLICK HERE
If your preload isn't right you can bend valves, pushrods, damage pistons, etc. Lifter preload simply sets the parameters for the hydraulic lifters.

How about piston-to-valve clearance? Did you check it? Got any idea what your clearance is? Some folks use weak springs so they can manually push the valves down while turning the crank. I do mine differently.

You see, slapping an engine together and running it is like shaking dice. You have a different cam, different pistons, different compression ratio, different lifters and rocker arms and it's far and away different from 'stock'. You need to carefully find out and KNOW where everything is at before cranking it over. I want this build to be great for you but if anything is awry, NOW is the time to find out and fix it. - Dave

[Yadkin]

My wife's grandfather worked his entire life at the Rogue plant. He described as 'ore in, cars out', meaning everything was made there. Ben started off at 14 sweeping floors, they put him through school and he eventually became a manufacturing engineer. He retired in his 50's and drew a pension longer than he had worked.

I had the conversation about piston clearance with Kevin months ago when we were deciding on a piston. He figured all that out. I don't remember what the clearance is. I assure you he didn't slap this together.

Pre-load will be set to 0.05 to 0.1 in accordance with the Comp Cams instruction sheet.

The drip pans aren't on the engine since this is a mock-up to measure for shaft shims.