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  • #31
    Last night I put the black wire back on it's spade, 938, on the front left spade of relay. I turned the key on but did not start then turned it off. No dummy lights staying on. Then I just cranked it a little, with wire 938 back on, no dummy lights after I shut it off.
    Today I drive it to work, 10 miles, parked, shut it off and the dummy lights stayed on. Had to disconnect the small black 938 wire to get the dummy lights to turn off.
    All wires are connected correctly as far as I can see in front of me.
    Could the diagram be wrong and the spade wires are crossed?
    Tim
    1962 Conv Tbird
    1993 Miata LE
    1994 Miata

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    • #32
      The diagram is correct. The black wire ONLY powers the windows. It has no other function. If it is controlling the lights then it is connected somewhere where it shouldn't be. If it's not in the engine compartment then check under the dash at the fuse box or near the ignition switch. Am I correct in saying that you removed the white wire that was shown in your picture?

      John
      Last edited by jopizz; May 23rd, 2018, 10:58 AM.
      John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

      Thunderbird Registry #36223
      jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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      • #33
        Windows still work with the black wire disconnected. I will go look at the other stuff. I hate electrical things, not a strong point.
        Tim
        1962 Conv Tbird
        1993 Miata LE
        1994 Miata

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by jopizz View Post
          The diagram is correct. The black wire ONLY powers the windows. It has no other function. If it is controlling the lights then it is connected somewhere where it shouldn't be. If it's not in the engine compartment then check under the dash at the fuse box or near the ignition switch. Am I correct in saying that you removed the white wire that was shown in your picture?

          John
          All wires are connected as the diagram shows. The PO has not removed any of the wires in the engine compartment as it relates to this relay. When I got the car all they had done was splice the black wire (spade end still show in pic) that goes on left spade into the bigger wire from the solenoid to the center post of relay.
          Maybe this new relay is bad? I know the old one, the guts were all broken up, when I got it out you could here internal parts moving, like a tin full of rocks.
          What would happen if I switched the black and red wires on the spades of the relay?
          Tim
          1962 Conv Tbird
          1993 Miata LE
          1994 Miata

          Comment


          • #35
            When all wired like diagram I wonder why I can turn on the key on but not start it then turn key off all is ok. When I start it and drive, then shut it off the dummy lights stay on.
            Tim
            1962 Conv Tbird
            1993 Miata LE
            1994 Miata

            Comment


            • #36
              As I mentioned the black wire and/or the relay has NOTHING to do with any lights. If it does your wiring is all screwed up. You can try spinning it any way you want but the fact of the matter is that you can either troubleshoot the wiring or live with it the way it is. Use the diagram and trace the wires from the relay to the power window switches, the solenoid and the ignition switch. They only go three places.

              John
              John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

              Thunderbird Registry #36223
              jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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              • #37
                I am not spinning anything. Just trying to give as much detail as possible to what happens when A B or C happens. I will research more off of what has been suggested here.
                Tim
                1962 Conv Tbird
                1993 Miata LE
                1994 Miata

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by blue62tbird View Post
                  ...Could the diagram be wrong and the spade wires are crossed?
                  Anything is possible (but not probable). First, make sure the red wire with the push-on connector is on the right hand side of the relay (as you're looking straight at it). Then, check the wires.

                  You know one black wire with a spade terminal comes from the starter solenoid, so that one is always hot.

                  You know the red wire with a spade powers your seats.

                  That only leaves two wires with push-on terminal ends. The black one powers your windows and the red one turns on with your key switch.

                  All these wires are easily checked with a test light. I would start with the red key switch wire. Put your test light on it and start working that key. If it stays on, you have a problem with the key switch. These are very easy tests that anyone can do.

                  I agree with everything John has said. The relay has nothing to do with any dash lights and I don't see any 'extra' wires. I'm sure the splicing intent was to eliminate the relay because the old one didn't work. Too bad the relay wasn't replaced.

                  John, that 'white wire' isn't white at all (neither is his valve cover). They appear white, probably from a flash. If you follow the wire up, it turns black. - Dave

                  EDIT: I have included a picture showing the inside of your relay and how the wires are configured. Study it and you will see why it is important to get the push-on connectors on the correct terminals.
                  if the Red push-on terminal is on the wrong way, the windows will never work.

                  BTW, open up the 'bad' relay and take a few pictures. I'd like to see what happened inside.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by simplyconnected; May 23rd, 2018, 03:35 PM.
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                  • #39
                    Well poked around under the dash. I have a red wire coming from drivers door to the fuse box. It is on a fuse in the fuse box that is only hot when key is on. This wire does have a in line fuse. When pull fuse windows and top do not work, seat still does. The red wire spade on relay when pulled seat still works. It is not on the fused line I speak of above. Don't know what is making that work. So the relay is useless it appears.
                    I have a few other odd wire things I have pics I will post later.
                    So is that in line fuse enough for the windows and top operation? They work fine.
                    The drivers door push button that turns lights on off when door is open or closed is taped off and just laying up in the door jamb. Have to assume the switch is bad. I have never stated that I have no instrument cluster lights. Maybe just a bad light switch or a wire got snipped.
                    Tim
                    1962 Conv Tbird
                    1993 Miata LE
                    1994 Miata

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      could I run that red wire that has the inline fuse to the relay, to the black push end black wire?
                      Tim
                      1962 Conv Tbird
                      1993 Miata LE
                      1994 Miata

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by blue62tbird View Post
                        could I run that red wire that has the inline fuse to the relay, to the black push end black wire?
                        The top and window switches in the door should be on completely different circuits. I would not run them to the same relay. The top should have it's own relay under the dash that works off the neutral switch so the top will only work when the car is in Park or Neutral. It makes more sense now. Someone bypassed both relays most likely because they didn't work and connected the hot wires together inside the door to get power to them. I doubt an inline fuse is large enough to carry both circuits. The top switch should have it's own 10 amp breaker in the fuse box and the windows should have a 30 amp breaker on the solenoid. How large is the in-line fuse. You will have to take the door panel off to see where they joined the wires. Or you can leave it the way it is. The in-line fuse should blow before any damage is done to either circuit.

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • #42
                          At this point I may leave as is. The car sits in the garage, top not used much, windows not since it is indoors and I don't any of it when I am driving it. Not that dude the cycles the top 5 times at car shows and cruise in's to show off that system.
                          I assume if I am not using any of it, there is not load on those systems through the loan hot wire to the fuse box. I did not see what size the fuse was in that line. The thing inside of it was pretty wide/thick so i assume they tried best they could to put the right one in that would blow sooner than later if there was an issue.
                          It appeared all the wires where intact, nothing an issue, but to my vastly untrained eye I could have missed something. I did find two things I will get loaded tonight. There is a relay (similar looking to the many on this car) of sorts at the end of the steering column, above it, with two wires going in, one yellow and red?? and a black that was cut and see no other black wire that is just hanging loose.
                          I will try to post pics later but prob won't help.
                          I have notes (repair records) from prev owner from shops trying to figure out some electrical gremlins with the windows and instrument cluster, I assume what I have found was part of the fix!!?!?!!? I am hoping the gauge lights that do not work are just a bad light switch, I did not see any out of the norm look of any wires coming from that switch.
                          Tim
                          1962 Conv Tbird
                          1993 Miata LE
                          1994 Miata

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                          • #43
                            As long as it's on a breaker that's switched you should be fine. I've gotten used to removing the battery cable whenever I have old cars in my garage. I'd rather be safe than sorry. With old wiring you never know what can happen. There's no reason to have the battery connected unless you really want the clock to keep time.

                            John
                            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                            Thunderbird Registry #36223
                            jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                            • #44
                              Clock does not work. ha ha ha
                              Tim
                              1962 Conv Tbird
                              1993 Miata LE
                              1994 Miata

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I will look at the records I have on the car, see if they give any detail to what they did fixing the bugs in the electrical. I have looked them over don't recall detail but I will look again.
                                Tim
                                1962 Conv Tbird
                                1993 Miata LE
                                1994 Miata

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