Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Road Draft v. PCV

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Yes, my parts guy told me they use this

    Yes, my supplier told me they used these on '64's as well. But I was also told '62/63 used them? I have seen different articles stating so...but in the end, it works just fine. She actually runs a little better. I leaned out the fuel mix just a hair, and reduced the fast engine idle, again, just a hair to learn how all that works, and came up with a setting that seems to let her run quite well.

    And, like Erik says below, no more fumes coming from under the car's road draft!
    Geoff In Carlsbad
    1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


    sigpic

    Comment


    • #32
      The 64 has a lot in common with the earlier model (engine color, drum brakes), so it makes sense that the carb spacer would be the same.

      The PCV should make the engine run better. It keeps the crankcase under a vacuum which helps to keep the rings seated.

      Getting rid of the stink is a huge positive. I've only recently gotten my car running after several years, and although I've owned many old cars in my younger years completely forgot (perhaps more correctly never considered) how much they pollute. Now that I have a house with a basement garage I have spent considerable effort to get mine as clean as possible.

      Comment


      • #33
        Update to the PCV Thread...

        Hi team T-Bird:

        Ok, been working on my poor acceleration from a stop, the classic flat spot in the acceleration curve when I hit the gas gently. If I just stomp on it, we seem to get through the gap, but the reality is there is a flat spot. So, per the Shop Manual, I have run most of the checks, and will finish up the check list this week, but what occurred to me was that I did add a PCV spacer beneath my Autolite 4100, and I am wondering if this raising of the carb 1 3/4" may play a role in this issue?

        I have essentially rebuilt the carb, with checking my floats as the next, and last, action listed in the manual. Does anyone have any experience with this?

        I may restro-fit a 61 PCV set up by running my line into the vacuum port on the manifold, just to the right of the distributor. Just have to find a fitting, but if anyone has any advice, would love to hear about it.

        If any additional data needed:

        I have set timing to 8 degress BTDC, slightly past the 6 recommended in the manual specs, but within the 0-10 range.

        Vacuum is 18Hg spot on, and consistent, no fluctuation.

        Tuned to 500RPMs hot, Fast Idle @ 1300rpm hot.

        new plugs, wires, pertronix ignition, and flamethrower coil.

        replaced my primary and secondary pump diaphrams, power valves, gaskets, etc.....left the floats alone, for now.....sooo, any help is always appreciated...

        ~g
        Geoff In Carlsbad
        1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


        sigpic

        Comment


        • #34
          I don't think the spacer is your problem. A thick spacer was used from '62-65. If you've replaced the accelerator pump and you have the linkage adjusted properly there may be other causes. How well did you clean the carburetor. Some of the passages are minute and sometimes you need to pass very thin wires through to completely clean them out. Look down the carburetor throat and watch the flow of gas while you pump it. If the fuel doesn't come out of both venturies in a strong straight stream then you have a blockage or it's not adjusted correctly. You may also have leaks around the throttle shaft. Do you know the condition of your timing chain? A worn chain can cause poor acceleration. Adjusting the floats is rather simple using the guide ruler that comes with the carburetor rebuild kit.

          John
          John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

          Thunderbird Registry #36223
          jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

          Comment


          • #35
            Good advice...

            Originally posted by jopizz View Post
            I don't think the spacer is your problem. A thick spacer was used from '62-65. If you've replaced the accelerator pump and you have the linkage adjusted properly there may be other causes. How well did you clean the carburetor. Some of the passages are minute and sometimes you need to pass very thin wires through to completely clean them out. Look down the carburetor throat and watch the flow of gas while you pump it. If the fuel doesn't come out of both venturies in a strong straight stream then you have a blockage or it's not adjusted correctly. You may also have leaks around the throttle shaft. Do you know the condition of your timing chain? A worn chain can cause poor acceleration. Adjusting the floats is rather simple using the guide ruler that comes with the carburetor rebuild kit.

            John
            Thanks John. Actually I had not passed anything through the passages, and will do that. I did check the throttle shaft and it seems solid, but since I am going to pull the carb off again, I will be certain to check that. It is one of the items on the list in the manual that was on my continued to-do's.

            As for the timing chain, I don't know its condition at the moment. I have been thinking this could be a timing issue cuz I think the harmonic balancer is not the original, as it has timing marks on it instead of the plain with a small mark as pictured in the manual. So it is possible that I'm not even at TDC. I ordered a piston stop just the other day as a matter of fact so that I can check that out. It is worth the 7.95 if it helps me get that marked properly. Is there a better way to check the timing chain? I'll look it up in the manual tomorrow as well.
            Last edited by GeoffInCarlsbad; November 25th, 2017, 01:19 AM. Reason: small edit
            Geoff In Carlsbad
            1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


            sigpic

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by jopizz View Post
              ...A worn chain can cause poor acceleration...
              This is due to two factors:
              • Slop. A worn chain can make valve and ignition timing very erratic.
              • Because the chain is worn, the crank timing will lead the cam's original timing by a lot, which now brings the torque curve much higher in the RPM range.
              Here is a procedure for checking timing chain slop:
              1. Disconnect your battery with the damper pulley showing your timing marks.
              2. Pull the distributor cap off.
              3. Use a long bar on your crank bolt so you can move it back and forth.
              4. Put your hand on the rotor to feel for any motion while you rock the crank back and forth. Notice how many degrees you can move the crank without distributor motion. This will show how much slop is in your timing chain set.

              When your engine was new the timing chain was tight and there was no hesitation from a light. Now, you probably have a good two degrees of crankshaft advance. A new chain set will bring it back. - Dave
              My latest project:
              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              Comment


              • #37
                Timing Chain

                Dave, thanks for the advice. I'll do the test, hoping that's not an issue cuz I am not ready to do that work yet. Fingers crossed! Happy Holidays.

                ~g
                Geoff In Carlsbad
                1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                sigpic

                Comment


                • #38
                  Timing chain stretch is common with old engines. Some get so sloppy they jump a tooth. This is serious business that can cause very expensive repairs if neglected.

                  The timing chain housing is located right behind the water pump. A gear puller is required for the damper pulley. The rest of this job requires standard wrenches. Heads and all manifolds do not need to be removed.

                  This would be an excellent opportunity to degree your crank and cam so you know exactly where valve timing is. - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Can this be done without removing the motor?

                    Hi Dave:

                    Can this be done without removing the motor? When I checked the manual, it looks like I would have to remove not just the water pump assembly, but much more. The fan, radiator overflow reservoir, etc.....

                    ~g
                    Geoff In Carlsbad
                    1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by simplyconnected
                      • Disconnect your battery with the damper pulley showing your timing marks.
                      • Pull the distributor cap off.
                      • Use a long bar on your crank bolt so you can move it back and forth.
                      • Put your hand on the rotor to feel for any motion while you rock the crank back and forth. Notice how many degrees you can move the crank without distributor motion. This will show how much slop is in your timing chain set.
                      Keep in mind, this value may also include clearance sums in the camshaft drive to distributor driven gears including an end thrust sum in each, and other clearances present within the distributor shaft to housing bushing, distributor main shaft to advance shaft, including rotation & to rotor.

                      Scott.
                      Last edited by simplyconnected; November 27th, 2017, 10:26 PM. Reason: to straighten out the quote

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Replacing the timing chain isn't that difficult. You don't have to remove the motor. You just need to remove the water pump, fuel pump and the fan shroud. You will need to unbolt the power steering pump and move it to the side. The generator bracket that bolts to the water pump will have to be removed. You don't need to remove the overflow tank unless you feel you need more room. It's only held on by two bolts. You shouldn't have to move the radiator unless the puller you use has an exceptionally long bolt. I've done many of them and if you take your time and follow the manual you shouldn't have any problems.

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GeoffInCarlsbad View Post
                          Hi Dave:

                          Can this be done without removing the motor? When I checked the manual, it looks like I would have to remove not just the water pump assembly, but much more. The fan, radiator overflow reservoir, etc.....
                          ~g
                          As John correctly advised, 'follow your Shop Manual'. I find it much easier to remove the radiator just so it doesn't get damaged. Everything bolted to the water pump and chain housing must be removed. Take lots of pictures as you go.

                          This work isn't hard or technical. I would say a novice with a Shop Manual can do it in his driveway on a Saturday afternoon if he has the right tools (puller, scrapers, wrenches, rags and parts washer) and parts (new timing set, Permatex Black, Teflon thread sealer and Loctite-blue).

                          The very first thing I do after sliding the timing housing off is to stuff rags in the front of the oil pan just so nothing falls in. You will see when you get there. Just before re-installing the housing, I pull those rags out.

                          Removed parts are nasty dirty. I use diesel fuel (kerosene) and a stiff parts brush to clean everything because it has a very high flash point, it is cheap and it works well. Stay away from using gasoline and brake cleaners because they catch fire very easily.

                          BTW, this might be an excellent opportunity to add an electric fan if you're so inclined.

                          Originally posted by pbf777 View Post
                          Keep in mind, this value may also include clearance sums in the camshaft drive to distributor driven gears including an end thrust sum in each, and other clearances present within the distributor shaft to housing bushing, distributor main shaft to advance shaft, including rotation & to rotor.
                          Scott.
                          That's right which is why the valve train and ignition timing get so far out of whack. The entire stack of tolerances add up but the timing chain causes the most slop. You can imagine, when the engine is accelerating the crank sprocket is driving the cam sprocket. When decelerating, the cam sprocket is trying to drive the crank sprocket. It's that transition, right at this point when you step on the gas, that hesitation is the worst.

                          For a street motor, I always offset my cam. I suggest you set the new timing chain, four degrees advanced with a stock cam. Check it with your degree wheel before returning the housing. - Dave
                          My latest project:
                          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                          --Lee Iacocca

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Ok, if necessary..

                            Ok, this sounds easy enough. Will give me a chance to clean up & paint the water pump, et al. I do use diesel to clean anything, so I am good there.

                            So if I cannot solve this problem at the carb level, and there's slack in the timing chain, per your earlier suggestion on how to test, I'll tackle that project during the holidays.

                            Thanks guys!
                            Geoff In Carlsbad
                            1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              When you do the test the result will speak for itself. I want to know, how many crank degrees of slop you have?

                              There are many areas that are not covered well in the manuals. This is one of them. The book shows how to assemble but it doesn't go into, 'how much slop is too much'.

                              When you buy your timing set, get one that is a 'true roller' chain. They last three times longer than OEM chains because they are more heavy duty. True Roller chains are double-row with 1/4" rollers. They resemble bicycle chain. Most sets now have the bottom sprocket with many keyways cut so you can choose your offset (or not). Also, buy a good gasket set for the timing cover and a couple for your valve covers. - Dave
                              My latest project:
                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'll get to this in a few weeks when I am off for the Holidays.

                                I'll let you know in a few weeks when I'm off for the holidays.

                                ~g
                                Geoff In Carlsbad
                                1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X