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  • 1963 - Hot air choke and brake booster vacuum

    So I bought my 1963 hardtop 9 days ago and joined Squarebirds 6 days ago. I ordered the shop manual a couple of days later and have been waiting anxiously for it so that I could sort out a couple of issues. It finally arrived today, but after reading through the appropriate sections, I'm no closer to figuring out what's going on, so here I am. Having spent too many hours this past week reading every post I could find here, I'm confident that you guys can help me out.

    I'm most interested in sorting out two issues first:
    1. The carburetor (Holley 4160, I believe) has a hot air choke, but it's not connected and I can't figure out how to hook it up. The previous owner had installed this carb, and mentioned it wasn't hooked up.

    2. The brake booster has no vacuum hoses attached, and I'd like to have them hooked up properly as well. It's still all drums -- I'd like to convert to disc, but that isn't today -- so I'd like to have them working as well as they can.

    Some background... the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year. He said it's still an FE 390, and I'm inclined to believe him as he has several other Fords from that year that he's done a lot to and seemed to know what he's doing. (He has a beautiful Galaxie.) I've read that I might need to measure to know for sure, but I haven't had a chance to do that yet. It seems that casting numbers can be located several places from what I've read. All I've noted so far are those below the air cleaner, which say 3B6 and then below that C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?

    The reason I feel identifying the engine might be important is because from what I've gathered from the manual, for both the hot air choke as well as the vacuum for the brake booster, it says that there should be ports in the exhaust manifold; one on each side.

    But, I don't seem to be able to locate anything that looks like those ports, and I'm wondering if a different year engine might not have them. There are some coarse-threaded holes that look like a bolt could go in there, but I think those are used to lift the engine, or something along those lines. They don't seem to go into the manifold, but just bottom out.

    On the right exhaust manifold, there are two small holes near the back, and I can't tell if it looks like they should do anything or not.

    Any help, or thoughts at all, are appreciated.

    Scott

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ickaber View Post
    ...the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year.

    C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?...
    Scott, welcome to Squarebirds.org. All FE engines look the same from the outside.
    There is an easy way to tell if your engine has a 390/427 crank:
    Put your timing on TDC and pull #1 and #4 spark plugs.

    When #1 is up, #4 is down. Now take a welding rod and stick it in #1 spark plug hole, all the way down (it won't go far). At the valve cover flange, mark the welding rod with a sharpie marker.

    Remove the rod and stick it down #4 spark plug hole, and mark it using the same valve cover flange.

    Now, measure between your marks.
    The 352 has a stroke = 3.5"
    The 390 has a stroke = 3.78" That's a quarter inch longer.

    Generally speaking, if your marks are anything more than 3-1/2" apart, you have a 390.

    Your casting number identifies a Ford Intake Manifold from 1963. If it were from a light truck, the first digits could read C3TE. C3AE identifies a Ford Car. These engines are nearly identical and Ford put the 390 in EVERYTHING! It is by far, the easiest and most inexpensive engine to find parts for, OEM and aftermarket. That is my engine of choice for Thunderbirds. - Dave
    My latest project:
    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ickaber View Post

      I'm most interested in sorting out two issues first:

      1. The carburetor (Holley 4160, I believe) has a hot air choke, but it's not connected and I can't figure out how to hook it up. The previous owner had installed this carb, and mentioned it wasn't hooked up.
      The 4160 HOLLEY is not original equipment for the BIRD, but can be used. Choke tubing kits are available to make your own.

      2. The brake booster has no vacuum hoses attached, and I'd like to have them hooked up properly as well. It's still all drums -- I'd like to convert to disc, but that isn't today -- so I'd like to have them working as well as they can.
      I am sending Ray some illustrations

      Some background... the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year. He said it's still an FE 390, and I'm inclined to believe him as he has several other Fords from that year that he's done a lot to and seemed to know what he's doing. (He has a beautiful Galaxie.) I've read that I might need to measure to know for sure, but I haven't had a chance to do that yet. It seems that casting numbers can be located several places from what I've read. All I've noted so far are those below the air cleaner, which say 3B6 and then below that C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?

      The reason I feel identifying the engine might be important is because from what I've gathered from the manual, for both the hot air choke as well as the vacuum for the brake booster, it says that there should be ports in the exhaust manifold; one on each side.

      But, I don't seem to be able to locate anything that looks like those ports, and I'm wondering if a different year engine might not have them. There are some coarse-threaded holes that look like a bolt could go in there, but I think those are used to lift the engine, or something along those lines. They don't seem to go into the manifold, but just bottom out.

      On the right exhaust manifold, there are two small holes near the back, and I can't tell if it looks like they should do anything or not.

      Any help, or thoughts at all, are appreciated.

      Scott
      The intake manifold is correct. He must have swapped that from the old engine. You need to find the block, cylinder heads and exhaust manifold Casting I.D. Nos.

      If from a pickup, it may be a 352, 360 or 390.

      Comment


      • #4
        1963 - Hot air choke and brake booster vacuum

        Here is the information that Gary asked me to post. Hope this helps! You can zoom in and out by using CTRL + or - to view them. First is the Choke Tubes for a '60-'64 FE.

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...60-64%20FE.jpg

        Here is the Brake Booster Install for a '61-'63 Tbird.

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...-63%20BIRD.jpg

        Here are the other pix he sent me. The first one with the blue valve covers shows a Choke Stove- (Early FE).

        The second pic shows a Choke Stove- 62 BIRD 390.

        The third pic shows a C3AE 9425-B.

        The fourth pic shows a Choke Stove Line Kit.

        The fifth pic shows a C1AA 2A185-A.
        Attached Files

        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
        "It's Hip To Be Square"
        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          Scott, the shot of the intake shows the brass fitting towards the rear just to the side of the carburetor , this is the vacumn pick-up point for the power booster , the other stub on the power booster check-valve attaches to the metal pipe that runs down to the transmission modulating valve . Ian

          Comment


          • #6
            I knew I'd come to the right place.

            For the choke stove (nice to know what it's called), the second pic, of the '62 390, looks the most like what I have. The tubes themselves are missing, but the two holes in my exhaust manifold look about the same as in the pic.

            For the booster vacuum lines, I think I was looking in the wrong place.

            Thanks all for the information. I'll check this out as soon as I can and get back to you.

            Scott

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't forget the vacuum hose from the booster check valve to the transmission modulator.

              John
              John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

              Thunderbird Registry #36223
              jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's what I've got

                So my best guess here is that I need the '63 choke tube set. The hole on the left connects to the nipple under the air cleaner, and the hole on the right connects to the carb.



                Here's my brass valve, which has been painted blue. The line coming off the bottom runs through the firewall (I think for the windshield wipers?) and the one headed up disappears underneath, but connects to some steel tube on the way down. My thought here is that they connected directly to the transmission modulator (thanks Ian and jopizz). So I need to connect from the valve to the booster, then from the booster to the transmission modulator. What's the third piece of the check valve for? It's currently plugged.





                Here's another casting number I noticed. (As you stand looking in from the front of the engine compartment, it's on the front of the engine towards the lower right.) Looks like it says "67 352". Should I be concerned yet about which motor I have?



                Thanks again everyone! I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure this out. I'm pretty new to this, but am having fun with it and you all make a big difference.

                Scott

                Comment


                • #9
                  The third nipple on the check valve is not used on your application. That valve was used on many car lines.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                    The third nipple on the check valve is not used on your application. That valve was used on many car lines.
                    Good to know. Thanks Kultulz.

                    So tonight I noticed that the line that runs from the brass valve to the transmission had a coupler in it. It looks like the previous owner had just pulled both lines off the booster and connected them to each other, bypassing the booster altogether.

                    I removed the coupler and connected the lines back to the booster, then tried to follow the troubleshooting instructions from the manual which said to pump the brakes a couple of times and then try to start the car while putting pressure on the pedal. It said I should notice the pedal go to the floor just a bit more once the vacuum from the engine kicks in.

                    So I tried that and the only thing that happened was that the car started to idle really rough. It seems the booster isn't functioning properly, but is the rough idle indicative of any particular problem? Or does it seem that the whole booster needs to be replaced/rebuilt? Is it time to call Booster Dewey? (I told you I've read nearly ever post here.)

                    As always, thanks for any input.

                    Scott

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is text describing booster theory and testing-

                      http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake05.pdf

                      Your Shop Manual should also have a detailed testing sequence. Your first step is to insure you have the correct vacuum signal at the manifold fitting (17HG and above).

                      Are you wanting this BIRD to just be a nice driver or are you more concerned about correct appearance?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Scott, your 63 -bird comes with hydraulic wipers if you look at your power steering box you will see hydraulic hoses running up to the centre of your firewall , intern connecting to a hydraulic wiper motor tucked in the front sill with the wiper arm linkage. this gives you a variable speed wiper action ( new for 63 ) . As for the hose that goes through the firewall , the heating system has vacumn controlled damper doors , controlled by your heating control set-up knobs in the dash . Scott as a new-comer I might suggest you purchase the 62 with the 63 supplement shop manuals ( you need the two together). These are available in printed form or you can purchase them on CD ( better idea as you can print off any section your working on and grease up that page all you want and dispose of it when your done, rather than grease up the printed manuals perminent ) Ian M Greer (REMEMBER NOT ALL BIRDS FLY SOUTH)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                          Here is text describing booster theory and testing-

                          http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake05.pdf

                          Your Shop Manual should also have a detailed testing sequence. Your first step is to insure you have the correct vacuum signal at the manifold fitting (17HG and above).

                          Are you wanting this BIRD to just be a nice driver or are you more concerned about correct appearance?
                          Thanks for that link. The troubleshooting there is much more detailed than what I've found in my manual.

                          I just want this car to run and drive nicely. It's not too far from it, I think, and just needs a few things sorted out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ian M Greer View Post
                            Scott, your 63 -bird comes with hydraulic wipers if you look at your power steering box you will see hydraulic hoses running up to the centre of your firewall , intern connecting to a hydraulic wiper motor tucked in the front sill with the wiper arm linkage. this gives you a variable speed wiper action ( new for 63 ) . As for the hose that goes through the firewall , the heating system has vacumn controlled damper doors , controlled by your heating control set-up knobs in the dash . Scott as a new-comer I might suggest you purchase the 62 with the 63 supplement shop manuals ( you need the two together). These are available in printed form or you can purchase them on CD ( better idea as you can print off any section your working on and grease up that page all you want and dispose of it when your done, rather than grease up the printed manuals perminent ) Ian M Greer (REMEMBER NOT ALL BIRDS FLY SOUTH)
                            Thanks for the info on the wipers and heater Ian. I do have the manual and supplement, I just hadn't looked closely at the wipers since they're not my main concern at the moment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ickaber View Post

                              I just want this car to run and drive nicely. It's not too far from it, I think, and just needs a few things sorted out.
                              In that case, you might want to consider an electric choke that will negate the fitting of hot air tubes.

                              - http://www.holley.com/45-226.asp

                              Also, the engine will most likely be fine as long as it has good compression, oil pressure and no leakages.

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