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1962 T-bird single to dual master cylinder

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  • 1962 T-bird single to dual master cylinder

    I'm new to this site. This has probably been talked about before. The brake master cylinder on my '62 T-bird locked up and I had a 4 wheel brake meltdown. I havn't checked the drums yet. Right now I'm just getting information.

    As long as I have to replace the single stage master cylinder, I would like to convert it to a dual stage. What year Ford master cylinder should I use. Will any '67 Ford with power brakes and 4 drums work. What model Ford, and year master cylinder should I use? What about the push rod lehgth?

    Thanks for any help.
    Lyle
    Last edited by lj37; August 27th, 2011, 10:15 AM.

  • #2
    I have a '60 but changed to front discs years ago -- it is a disc/drum system though.

    While I was doing my conversion I was told the late 60's Mustang master cyl is a dual mater cyl and will work for a drum/drum system. Might work for your application on a '62.

    Not sure what length push rod.

    A fellow who might be able to help and did the conversion on my booster is Booster Dewy @ Power Brake Booster Exchange. He will most likely know what length push rod. He's always been very helpful when I've called.

    There is a super long discussion on the 58-60 forum about disc's and dual master cyl - might get some info there if you have a few days to read it.

    http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

    Good luck.
    Eric
    registry 5347
    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/ft.asp

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    • #3
      '62 brake master cylinder single to dual

      Hi Eric,

      Thanks for the help. I will contact Dewy. I'm sure glad I found this site.

      Lyle

      Comment


      • #4
        Lyle - hope Booster Dewy was able to help you out - surprised no other Bullet Birders jumped in to help....! ? Oh well - guess the Bullet Birds are not converted as much as the Squarebirds. Post your results with a pic or two if you have time. I'll send a PM to another member who helped convert other cars - maybe he can give more info as well.

        Eric

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        • #5
          Eric, I think a '67 Galaxie with drums all around and power boost should work.
          Lyle

          Comment


          • #6
            Lyle, we need a little more info... will you be going to Power Brakes?
            If so, the M/C bore needs to be larger (1" min.).

            Are you considering Disk Brakes? <--This is where you gain the biggest advantage, but the system needs different components and different plumbing. If you want brakes that put you through the windshield (like a modern car) this is the way to go. Disk brakes require a lot more pressure to operate than drum brakes. So, get a booster large enough to accommodate your new calipers (at least 800-lb boost). - Dave
            My latest project:
            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

            Comment


            • #7
              Dave, I'm just changeing the master cylinder to a dual system for safty with the original Ford drums and power booster. I know disks are better but I've been told by the companys that sell the kits that I would need to change the wheels from 14" to 15" which means new tires too. My T-bird is just a driver to a car show once in a while.

              Eric, Thanks for the help.

              Lyle

              Comment


              • #8
                Lyle, I'm only asking because I would hate to see you do this job more than once.

                Keeping your drums is ok and I applaud you for putting your family's safety first.

                You will need two things:
                • A dual master cylinder with 1" bore (yes, the Mustang cylinder works very well).
                • A drum/drum combination proportioning valve.

                The proportioning valve serves two important functions. It meters (so the rear brakes come in first), and it shuts off a leaky circuit (so you don't run out of brake fluid if a hose breaks).

                Many Ford cars with disk brakes came with 14" wheels. Switching to 15" is an easy solution, but it isn't absolutely necessary. "Disk-ready" 14" rims are available. - Dave
                My latest project:
                CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                --Lee Iacocca

                From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                Comment


                • #9
                  1962 T-bird single to dual master cylinder

                  Should you decide to go the disc/drum route, with disc brakes up front and drums in the rear, you will need to find some 14" disc brake ready rims. Here is a list of Ford cars with disc/drum brakes whose rims should work on your Bulletbird. Some of us who own Squarebirds with 14" rims have satisfactorily converted our front brakes to disc using these rims, and also parts that will work on 14" rims. For much the same reason you have, we did not want to buy new 15" rims and tires, especially if the tires are new like mine are. Should you decide to go disc/drum, there is a ton of information in the Squarebirds Forum about this, much which should be usable on your Bulletbird. It is NOT necessary to buy 15" rims and tires to do this conversion. It IS necessary to get the right 14" disc brake ready rims though.

                  WHEELS/RIMS

                  14" rim Info – Original OEM 14" rims will NOT work. 14"x6" and maybe 14"x7" rims with a bolt pattern of 5x4.5 and lug nuts 1/2-20 are what you are looking for. I am told that offset backspacing and rear spacing are not a factor if you find the following rims. 70's LTD II. 14" Ford wheels with the numbers 43M below the Ford script, a 22 on another lobe of the center and a 3 next to the valve stem. Make sure they are vented rims. They have to be rims made for a front disk brake/rear drums car. Any 1977-1979 Lincoln, Versailles, Granada, LTD II, Torino, Ranchero should work. A 1998 Ford Ranger, 1975 and up Granada, 1974 Maverick, earlier 70's Torino or Ranchero with 14" rims & front disk brakes might work also. Most of these are 6 inches in width.

                  1995 Ranger wheels go right on and they’re 14”s and our hubcaps fit right on.

                  Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                  '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                  "It's Hip To Be Square"
                  Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                  Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dave, This is all very interesting. I didn't know I would need a proportioning valve with a drum drum system.
                    Lyle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lyle, since I wrote my response I've had several questions about it. On behalf of the Private Message posters, thank you for requesting a better explanation.

                      Think of your DUAL M/C as just that... one rod that pushes two pistons for two independent hydraulic circuits. One circuit for the front brakes and the other to the rear circuit.

                      Originally, all four wheels were tied to one tee, so they equalized. Now, for the sake of discussion and WITHOUT a proportioning valve, what happens when the first circuit shoes make contact? Specifically, what happens to the OTHER circuit which needs more pedal to engage the shoes? The circuit that needs more flow will have a reduced pressure.

                      In a disk/disk (or drum/drum) proportioning valve, both circuits are separated by a spool with full pressure equalization for both sides. If flow is a lot greater in one circuit, the spool will shift off center, and show a warning light. If a line or hose breaks, the spool will shift all the way over, energize the light, and shut off flow to the leaking circuit.

                      Can you get away without a proportioning valve using a dual M/C? Maybe, if your shoes are all properly adjusted at all times. Otherwise, install the valve. They're cheap enough and they warn about catastrophic failure. Notice that OEM's use them. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dave, Thanks again for the help. This is going to be a Fall project so it will be another month or so before I get around to it. I don't need to drive the T-bird at this time. I have a '57 Ford Sunliner and a '57 MGA roadster that I drive to car shows. I'm thinking the Sunliner should also be converted to a dual system. I assume the same type of dual master cylinder would work for the Sunliner. I converted the '57 MGA over to MGB front suspenion with disk brakes. It's on the internet, google Lyle Jacobson MGA V8. My family is into MGs. My son has a 215 Buick V8 supercharged '73 MGB conversion. Google Bill Jacobson supercharged MGB V8. He did all the work on it.

                        Lyle

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lyle,

                          I thought I had found my way to the Twilight Zone......

                          Just restored a '57 MGA and converted it to 1600 front discs. Will be restoring a '60 MGA 1600 this fall. Have had LOTS of B's as well as other British cars and will be helping my brother-in-law on a MGA - Buick 215 project this fall or winter. (can't you hear the Twilight Zone theme? I know I sure did) Too bad we are on opposite sides of the planet - would have loved to get a look at your projects up close. Hope Booster Dewy was helpful. The guys on this forum are a real great bunch - hope to see you get your project completed.

                          Eric

                          We are giving this one to my brother-in-law today. His Dad bought it new and he knows nothing about the restoration. He's been "Overhauled"

                          Before



                          During (this is the original color - Orient Red)


                          Finished it up yesterday afternoon.....my brother-in-law thinks he's coming to his niece and nephew's birthday party toady......won't he be surprised.......



                          and my '60 I will be doing this fall/winter and probably spring/summer..... Originally Iris Blue
                          Last edited by DKheld; September 4th, 2011, 10:13 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1962 T-bird single to dual master cylinder

                            Wow, Eric! I would love to be a guest at that birthday party! That is beautifully restored! You are amazing! Thanks for sharing the pix with us.

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                            "It's Hip To Be Square"
                            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              VERY cool! I wouldn't know it as the same car. Eric, did you do the engine, too? - Dave
                              My latest project:
                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

                              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                              Comment

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