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  • Hipo Cast Headers

    While looking at Sqbirds on Hemmings I came across a picture of a 60 Convert that appears to have a early sixties vintage Galaxie FE engine installed with a 3speed OD transmission. Not a 430 car as described. In the pictures you can see the fuel filter canister --circa 60's Galaxie-- and the PCV type intake. Most notably, are Cast Iron shorty Headers, also circa 60's Galaxie. Note that the car is missing the power steering pump, either the car was not equipped or the PS had to be removed for header clearance.

    Aparently someone figured out how to install factory headers into the Sqbird. It would be great if someone could photograph and document this installation. What body mods if any were required for the installation, custom H-pipe configuration, things of that nature. Also note that these shorty headers are pricey and will take some searching to aguire if someone plans this route.

    The car is in Frostproof, FL. Are there any members or friends of members that would be up to task?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by GTE427; May 19th, 2010, 12:45 PM.
    Ken
    1959 J Convertible
    1960 J Hardtop

  • #2
    I spoke with Bob Ohara about this car. He has the window sticker and the built sheet for the car which he will email to me. Once received I'll get this car into the registry and help Bob have the car properly listed.

    From our conversation, this is a Y code 352 car, 2 code OD transmission and a 9 code 3.70:1 differential.

    Sounds like a great car, all original, 26000 miles, originally a Pennsylvania car.
    Ken
    1959 J Convertible
    1960 J Hardtop

    Comment


    • #3
      Hipo Cast Headers

      Hey, Ken, that's great! Does he know anything about the shorty headers installation, how they did it, etc?? That might have happened before he got the car. It would be great if someone has some documentation on how it was done. It is good that you will be able to get it into the Tbird Registry
      ( www.tbirdregistry.com )

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
      "It's Hip To Be Square"
      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

      Comment


      • #4
        Weird to have only 26k and not have the original motor - 'course folks by low mileage cars these days and go for a motor swap to a different or maybe their favorite engine. Guess it's possible. Isn't that a 2 barrel? Maybe they did it in the '70's to squeeze some years out of the car and try to get better gas mileage with the 2 barrel and OD - highway cruiser that didn't work so the mileage stayed low?

        Looks like there is a dent in the passengers side fender well - wonder if that's part of the mod or if they hit it installing the engine with the headers on.

        Interesting. Wish we knew the history.

        Eric
        registry 5347

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GTE427 View Post

          While looking at Sqbirds on Hemmings I came across a picture of a 60 Convert that appears to have a early sixties vintage Galaxie FE engine installed with a 3speed OD transmission. Not a 430 car as described. In the pictures you can see the fuel filter canister --circa 60's Galaxie-- and the PCV type intake. Most notably, are Cast Iron shorty Headers, also circa 60's Galaxie. Note that the car is missing the power steering pump, either the car was not equipped or the PS had to be removed for header clearance.

          Aparently someone figured out how to install factory headers into the Sqbird. It would be great if someone could photograph and document this installation.
          I for one would be very interested in how they got those factory shorties between the aprons.





          By the road draft tube style, this appears to be a 61/63 engine (intake at least). The rocker covers (FORD) have been painted gold and it appears the air cleaner is a cut down open filter. The fuel filter was used on HI-PO and Police vehicles of that era.

          Is this a J-BIRD origionally?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post

            The rocker covers (FORD) have been painted gold and it appears the air cleaner is a cut down open filter. The fuel filter was used on HI-PO and Police vehicles of that era.
            It seems I am corrected regarding the air filter asm. It appeared (to me) to be a cut down of a full air cleaner to make it an open filter type (HI-PO) of the era.

            Below is a photo of a 62 GALAXIE 406/385HP and the air cleaner is used there-

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
              By the road draft tube style, this appears to be a 61/63 engine (intake at least). The rocker covers (FORD) have been painted gold and it appears the air cleaner is a cut down open filter. The fuel filter was used on HI-PO and Police vehicles of that era.

              Is this a J-BIRD origionally?
              Road draft tube for '61 entered from the back of the cast iron intake manifold and was pressed in, not through a fitting screwed into the manifold from the top. It might be a painted aluminum HiPo 4v intake that was first used in '60 on the 352-360hp cars-it had an opening on the top rear of the intake for a stamped metal basket and wire mesh filter, a fitting for the draft tube/retaining plate or, in later years, a hose nipple for a PCV system, but would need some more detail shots to tell. Further, the '60 360hp engines and Police Interceptors had an open element air cleaner like the one pictured, and the 360hp had gold painted valve covers.

              Something else to look at is the throttle cable on the driver's side of the manifold: I don't think this was used until the late '60s, so there have been a variety of modifications made to install this non-original engine.
              Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
              Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
              Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post-

                By the road draft tube style, this appears to be a 61/63 engine (intake at least). The rocker covers (FORD) have been painted gold and it appears the air cleaner is a cut down open filter. The fuel filter was used on HI-PO and Police vehicles of that era.

                Originally posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA View Post

                Road draft tube for '61 entered from the back of the cast iron intake manifold and was pressed in, not through a fitting screwed into the manifold from the top. It might be a painted aluminum HiPo 4v intake that was first used in '60 on the 352-360hp cars-it had an opening on the top rear of the intake for a stamped metal basket and wire mesh filter, a fitting for the draft tube/retaining plate or, in later years, a hose nipple for a PCV system, but would need some more detail shots to tell. Further, the '60 360hp engines and Police Interceptors had an open element air cleaner like the one pictured, and the 360hp had gold painted valve covers.

                Something else to look at is the throttle cable on the driver's side of the manifold: I don't think this was used until the late '60s, so there have been a variety of modifications made to install this non-original engine.
                The road draft tube is correct. The 60/63 352/390/406 4V SPECIAL used this style intake-



                and tube C0AE 6758-E (60/62 A SPEC)

                (until PCV was introduced 1963)

                The cast iron intakes of the period used the road draft tube you are referring to- PN C0AE 6758-C (60/64 A, PC).

                The only photos of the 1960 352/360HP I have seen showed a closed air cleaner asm. But I will bow to your description as you had a 360HP engine at one time. I also did not think FORD left corporate blue until 1961 THUNDERBIRD rocker covers. His using FORD stamper rocker covers either identifies it as a 1960 engine or that is the perception he is trying to imply.

                When FORD returned to NASCAR in 1960, they went with this engine and the FORD STARLINER BODY. The earlier BIRD and 430 MEL (HOLMAN-MOODY prepped and raced) were dropped as the BIRD body was so heavy).

                Good catch on the accelerator cable. His retrofit was not perfect.

                -Previous Discussion of 360SPEC And BIRD Useage-

                Comment


                • #9
                  By the road draft tube style, this appears to be a 61/63 engine (intake at least). The rocker covers (FORD) have been painted gold and it appears the air cleaner is a cut down open filter. The fuel filter was used on HI-PO and Police vehicles of that era.
                  -I think it's all adding up that this engine has all the earmarks of a HiPo 352 or HiPo 390, a neat find in itself.

                  The road draft tube is correct for an aluminum hipo intake (bold italics added to emphasise edit-AT). The 60/63 352/390/406 4V SPECIAL used this style intake-



                  and tube C0AE 6758-E (60/62 A SPEC) (until PCV was introduced 1963).
                  -Great picture of a 4v aluminum intake. I have one of these from a '60 full-size that I used on my '63 T-bird in '05. I took it off in favor of an "M"-series setup in '06 and still have it on the car. The aluminum 4v is waiting for an opportunity to be used again.
                  The cast iron intakes of the period used the road draft tube you are referring to- PN C0AE 6758-C (60/64 A, PC).
                  -Yes, that's what I was originally trying to describe in order to distinguish between the stock cast-iron manifold and the aluminum hipo version. From the arrangement of the draft tube/fitting it's more than likely that's a big hunk of aluminum on top of that engine.

                  The only photos of the 1960 352/360HP I have seen showed a closed air cleaner asm. But I will bow to your description as you had a 360HP engine at one time.
                  -Can't say I've owned one (wish I had), but have spent a considerable amount of time and effort researching this topic in part for VTCI's 1958-1960 and 1961-1963 Original Factory Specifications manuals over the past 20+ years. There are illustrations of the open element air cleaner in '60 and '61 "All the Facts" books of the Police Interceptor engines with the open element lid. I do have to dig to find a part number for what I'll call a "top-hat" open element lid with that tall dome in the center and the rim that goes past the air filter, versus the style used in '63-'64 (and I think '62 as well).

                  I also did not think FORD left corporate blue until 1961 THUNDERBIRD rocker covers. His using FORD stamper rocker covers either identifies it as a 1960 engine or that is the perception he is trying to imply.
                  -Blue Ford-stamped valve covers and air cleaners were used on '61-'64 full-size Ford 352s, which had a slightly lighter shade of blue. The T-bird 390 used argent silver valve covers/air cleaners for '61-'62 and Thunderbird-stamped valve covers. The '60 hipo 352 was unique in its use of the gold-painted covers and air cleaner lid, which carried over for '61-'63 versions of the 390-406 hipo engines. The '63-'64 T-bird 390 used a slightly lighter/greener shade called Castillian Gold.


                  When FORD returned to NASCAR in 1960, they went with this engine and the FORD STARLINER BODY. The earlier BIRD and 430 MEL (HOLMAN-MOODY prepped and raced) were dropped as the BIRD body was so heavy).

                  Good catch on the accelerator cable. His retrofit was not perfect.
                  -I'm amazed I caught it myself - it took a second look to see it.
                  Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
                  Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
                  Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    throttle linkage

                    Originally posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA View Post
                    Something else to look at is the throttle cable on the driver's side of the manifold: I don't think this was used until the late '60s, so there have been a variety of modifications made to install this non-original engine.
                    I've reviewed the pictures and cannot see a throttle cable linkage as mentioned. I see all the typical pieces, Firewall bellcrank, Manifold bellcrank, rod linkage between the two. The linkage between the Manifold bellcrank and the carb is a three piece rod linkage as found in the MPC, part # B8S-9747-A that is unique to the OD transmission setup consisting of two outer rods with a threaded coupler in the center for adjustment. Standard Trans (ST), COM and 430 COM transmission cars used a rod in Group 9772, different part numbers for each. The Manifold Bellcrank, Group # 77230, is also unique to the ST and OD cars, which this car has.

                    This car is originally a 352, OD car 0Y73Y157036 with Trans 2, axle 9. The seller was kind enough to send me the window sticker and ROT sheet, but was unwilling to accept the car is NOT a 430 equipped Thunderbird.

                    The car was sparsely optioned, no AC, Pwin, PSeat, PStr, PBrakes, ext mirrors, and most notable, no optional Wheel Covers are listed. Presumably this car was shipped with the smaller diameter hubcaps. I've compared the ROT sheet, field FS-WC --fender shield/wheel cover-- with others and I don't see a unique code to indicate the absence of Sunrays. The FS-WC code is 1, the car was optioned with Fender Shields.
                    Ken
                    1959 J Convertible
                    1960 J Hardtop

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GTE427 View Post

                      I've reviewed the pictures and cannot see a throttle cable linkage as mentioned. I see all the typical pieces, Firewall bellcrank, Manifold bellcrank, rod linkage between the two. T
                      ...sheesh...

                      Now, you are correct. What I saw was the engine wiring harness.

                      I will be walking into walls next...

                      No mention of how he got those exhaust manifolds between the aprons and was he trying to pass it off as an OEM 352/360HP installation?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                        No mention of how he got those exhaust manifolds between the aprons and was he trying to pass it off as an OEM 352/360HP installation?
                        No, he's a dealer and doesn't seem knowledgeable about the 60's era Ford products or this car's past, but maintains the car is 100% original as shown. He was aware of the cast headers as he stated a close friend recognized them. In email, I informed him the engine may be a HP or Police engine, unique in itself, and offered to help decode the castings to determine what he has. There wasn't any reply and the classified retains the 430 engine reference in his description.

                        The ROT sheet doesn't indicate anything out of the ordinary, besides the an entry under REMARKS at the bottom, OVERDRIVE TRANSMISSION. He actually has two ROT sheets, ROT418 Thunderbird and ROT419 Lincoln Premiere Landau 4DR.

                        His business is 1.5 hours from my mother's in Florida, if I arrange a trip soon, I'll pay him a visit.
                        Last edited by GTE427; May 25th, 2010, 10:43 AM.
                        Ken
                        1959 J Convertible
                        1960 J Hardtop

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GTE427 View Post

                          No, he's a dealer and doesn't seem knowledgeable about the 60's era Ford products or this car's past, but maintains the car is 100% original as shown.

                          In email, I informed him the engine may be a HP or Police engine, unique in itself, and offered to help decode the castings to determine what he has. There wasn't any reply and the classified retains the 430 engine reference in his description.

                          The ROT sheet doesn't indicate anything out of the ordinary, besides the an entry under REMARKS at the bottom, OVERDRIVE TRANSMISSION. He actually has two ROT sheets, ROT418 Thunderbird and ROT419 Lincoln Premiere Landau 4DR.

                          His business is 1.5 hours from my mother's in Florida, if I arrange a trip soon, I'll pay him a visit.
                          Maybe the LINC sheet was thrown into the BIRD on the line? Is it (BIRD) a Y or J chassis?

                          Anything you are able to find would be most appreciated. Whoever did it seems to have done a nice job.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                            Is it (BIRD) a Y or J chassis?
                            It's a Y chassis, 0Y73Y157036, five character is the eng code. Also, COM was the only Transmission on the 430 CID. The 352 was equipped with a S/T, optional were the O/D and COM.
                            Ken
                            1959 J Convertible
                            1960 J Hardtop

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "...sheesh...Now, you are correct. What I saw was the engine wiring harness."

                              Guess I got fooled, too ! Unless you got a real clear picture of it the part that attaches the throttle bellcrank on the carb looked like the pressed-on end of a late '60s-early '70s throttle cable, and would have routed through the firewall roughly in the same area that the wiring harness was showing up. As usual, sometimes more info is needed - in this case it would have helped to know that the car had the OD setup.

                              How about posting the ROTs and window sticker so we can see how it was listed as being optioned? And what were the codes on the data plate?
                              Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
                              Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
                              Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

                              Comment

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