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Upper Suspension ( control ) Arm Bushings, Rear

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  • #61
    Itīs not my floor. Itīs my workbench
    ( Old pic before the window and TV was in...)
    Attached Files
    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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    • #62
      Whew! thank goodness, LOL sorry for harping but I saw that wood and thought directly of a beautiful floor, such of which is bought for very high dollar here in the States.

      The comparison of the new to old bits is a bold fact of what 50 years give or take can do to parts, I hope you can get those parts dealt with Anders...

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      • #63
        You sounded just like Susanne there for a moment....
        Jeeez....
        sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Anders View Post
          You sounded just like Susanne there for a moment....
          Jeeez....
          sorry.... LOL

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          • #65
            Is that ...

            a 2.2 gigawatt flux-capacitor there on the end of the bench. Mike

            Comment


            • #66
              I got my bushings back today. The shop decided they better press them in place as they are slightly oversized as the original once was. I donīt realy know the final dimensions as they did the fitting like try & error and took they down in size until they where able to press them in the control arm.

              That was all good news, and I put them back as soon as I came home and took the car for a spin, eager to see if there was, or how big the difference was in driving it.
              As my loose nut on the left side is not welded back ( that will mean take off the whole rear axle, and what comes with that, and cut up a alot bigger hole in order to be able to get the welder in there, and then weld the washer & nut, and then weld the sheet metal back as before cutting it up ) I was still able to put in the washer and nut and tighten it with ease, with my new homemade tool I did when I tryed to get everything off...
              OK, All stuff back and off I vent.

              Yes, it was more quiet than before, but as expected, it also gave a different feel. Steering became more direct, and at first, it felt like the rear was "living". Now that was only because of the difference in feeling, and different response than before and I continued. On speed bumps, It now felt more stiff and less forgiving and that was a bit disapointing to be honest. It was softer before and that was better in my opinion. The more I drove, the more I missed my older softer "setting", so that was a bit of a setback. The more speedbumps I have to pass, the more a snap sound came every time, from the rear left of the car. It is most probably the consequence of not welding the nut, because I found out while putting the control arms back that there is a lot of tension or stress around these bushings. That might explain why they disapeared over the years as well.

              The thing is that the whole geometry is strange, and that is in my opinion one strong argument why this is a one year model sulotion, and why they changed to leaf spring suspension for ī59.
              In oder to mount the control arm back, I needed to raise the rear axle so much that it actually lifted the whole car. Only then, the distance between the mounting holes on the rear axle and the hole in the car lined up. This position is pretty much as while driving, with people in the back seat.
              This mean that when the car is rolling while cornering, or when the rear of the car moves up or down ( load, bumps etc. ) the control arms becomes to short or to long, so they pretty much becomes a limiter for the springs and shocks.
              Hmmmm................

              Without the new bushings, the big play actually gave the suspension more freedom to function, and this is why I belewe they gave up this idea for leaf springs, as they donīt have any upper control arms at all.

              I now totally understand people who change to leaf springs on there ī58:s, and if I do it or not in the future, I canīt say at this moment. Another way would of course to change the length of the control arms and find a new pivot point, but I doubt Iīm the right person to sort that kind of engineering out
              Never the less, It must be better with new bushings, so I guess I have to live with this for the moment. What I do need to sort out, is to weld the nut back in the future, so I can get that annoying snap sound disapear.

              [R]Is there any of you who have heard or read anything about the problem with the geometry? Any ī58 owner with some input about the comfort of your car would be great. Anything actually regarding the ī58 suspension is much appreciated [/R]
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Anders; May 29th, 2010, 07:09 AM.
              sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by tbird430 View Post
                AND. Another completely different option would be to weld in the perches for 1959-60 rear leaf springs!! I think we all know were I'm going with this ideal.

                It's been done before...
                Anyone who have done this?
                sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by tbird430 View Post
                  AND. Another completely different option would be to weld in the perches for 1959-60 rear leaf springs!!...
                  It's been done before...
                  Originally posted by Anders View Post
                  ...I now totally understand people who change to leaf springs on there ī58:s...
                  Anyone who have done this?
                  Anders, this is probably the easiest fix. You have to know that all the T-bird bone yards still have spring perches. Just cut them off with a disk grinder and bolt/weld them back on your frame.

                  Springs are very available, so are leaf spring, axle perches and shock brackets. Remember, the '58 was the only year for coil springs. All the rest had leaf springs with perches that never go bad. It is easier and cheaper to do this swap than machining bushings and pouring urethane for the arm bushings. - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                    Anders, this is probably the easiest fix. You have to know that all the T-bird bone yards still have spring perches. Just cut them off with a disk grinder and bolt/weld them back on your frame.

                    Springs are very available, so are leaf spring, axle perches and shock brackets. Remember, the '58 was the only year for coil springs. All the rest had leaf springs with perches that never go bad. It is easier and cheaper to do this swap than machining bushings and pouring urethane for the arm bushings. - Dave
                    What I find so strange, is that my new bushings is in rubber, as the original. But there is something wierd going on here.
                    Iīll try to explain....
                    When the car was on stands, so I could come under, the length for the control arm was waaay off. Like 2". By jacking up the rear axle to the point it lifted the car, and then having somebody hanging on the rear of the car, the holes in the control arm was lining up. OK? Iīm not sure here, as the the upper arm now is limiting the suspesion travel, making it stiff
                    Can it be that due to the big play before, the rest of the suspension was fixed to that and something donīt realy line up correctly anymore, meaning I shall perhaps loosen a lot of things before tight it again, now with the right bushing in the arm?
                    Iīm totally confused, and today was the first time I though of selling the car, and buy a Chevy or even a Toyota instead....
                    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Anders, there are some things I don't know about your installation:

                      Did you take any pictures before you started, for reference?

                      Did you tighten the bushings when the car was level? This is important. It applies to the front steering suspension as well. At the factory, installers left all the bolts loose until the car was level, then a man underneath (in the pit) tightened everything. We do that today, as well.

                      Are you sure all the components are in their right places?

                      When the car was new, assembling suspension parts was always a challenge. The parts are big, heavy, and hard to control. Parts do not fall into place. Assemblers (big men) used drift pins to align holes for the bolts.

                      If it is any consolation, Chevy had the same assembly issues as Ford. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                        Anders, there are some things I don't know about your installation:

                        Did you take any pictures before you started, for reference? No pic on the car, but in all honesty, there was only 2 bolts here. I even marked the front & rear part of the arm, even though itīs looks like you can mount it either way. But I was very careful and took the pic on "my wooden floor" so I could see how everything came from the car

                        Did you tighten the bushings when the car was level? Yes. By jacking up the rear axle to the extent it lifts the car, itīs the same as standing on the wheels. ( in my opinion.... )This is important. It applies to the front steering suspension as well. At the factory, installers left all the bolts loose until the car was level, then a man underneath (in the pit) tightened everything. We do that today, as well. This confirm my suspiction that I might need to take it up on a lift, loosen "everything" and tighten it back. A lift where the car stands on the tires that is of course.

                        Are you sure all the components are in their right places? Yes. There is no doubt. There is only 1 screw in the front position, and 1 screw with a nut on the rear axle. I took them off and took a picture ( earlier post ) so every washer came as it was

                        When the car was new, assembling suspension parts was always a challenge. The parts are big, heavy, and hard to control. Parts do not fall into place. Assemblers (big men) used drift pins to align holes for the bolts.

                        If it is any consolation, Chevy had the same assembly issues as Ford. - Dave
                        Big thanks for the tips. Please keep them coming
                        Last edited by Anders; May 29th, 2010, 05:12 PM.
                        sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Perseverance is a trait ...

                          acquired over time by all true gear heads. Just hang in there and it will come together and you will be the better man for it. Don't be afraid to use a little leverage to get things lined up. Mike

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                          • #73
                            I have now taken the upper control arm off again, and loosen all bolts around the rear axle, and the chocks before mounting the control arm back again. After then I start tighteen the screws carefully in steps before tighteen the last bit and then mount the chocks back.
                            It does works better now I have to admit, but I still feel the rear is stiffer than the front.
                            Guess I have to accept this as Iīm out of ideas.
                            I guess I need to try another bird and compaire. Just need to find one somewhere....
                            If anything new comes up, Iīll come back with that.
                            sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Hey Anders,

                              GREAT to see you are in progress with your bushings!!!
                              (I'm not so often at the Forum these days as I should I wish)
                              As the stiffness of the rear, maybe it's also in a reason what compound they used for your bushings?

                              Just a guess.............

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Anders, I copied this out of the 1955 Ford shop manual:


                                You can see, Ford has been doing this tightening proceedure for a very long time.

                                Stiffness is caused by resistance to travel. Take the rear shock absorbers out of the system. Loosten the bottoms, and let them hang by themselves. Bounce your rear end. When you stop bouncing, it should continue up and down at least a few times by itself.

                                Shock absorbers can lock. Usually when they wear out, they offer no resistance, but I have seen them sieze from water getting inside. If you get real brave, pull the shocks all the way out and go for a ride without them. See if the rear end is still stiff.
                                My latest project:
                                CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                                "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                                --Lee Iacocca

                                Comment

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