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1960 352/360 Hp Engine???

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  • 1960 352/360 Hp Engine???

    Hi! Does This Configuration Exist??? A Guy Says He Has One. I Never Heard Of It. I Thought The Tbirds Of 58-60 Had 3 Engines, Not 4. I Checked With Hemmings And There Is An Article On This Car With That Configuration. I Also Saw A 60 Ford Fairlane For Sale With The Exact Configuration. It Comes With A Aluminum Intake Manifold And Special Heads Etc. Same Stroke & Bore Though.

    Is This True?? Nada Also Shows This As An Option, However, I Don't Think This Was On Any Option List For The Tbird. Anyone Have Information On This. I Really Would Like To Know.

    Thanks- Jack

  • #2
    I've seen the 360HP engine listed in some of my Tbird mags, but I have never seen a build sheet with it, so I can't say for sure.

    Someone will be on here soon who will know.

    I KNOW it is listed in a couple of my mags/books...

    Comment


    • #3
      1960 352/360 Hp Engine???

      I have never seen anything about that engine for the Squarebird before, but then I am pretty new to Squarebirds. However, Automotive Mile Posts does not list anything about it. Here are the links.

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...ns.html#engine

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...fications.html

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...fications.html

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...equipment.html

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...equipment.html

      http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...equipment.html

      AMP does say that there were only two engines for the '58, although they tested a 430 in a convertible to see what they had to do to make it fit in the engine well for the 1959. The 430MEL is listed as an available engine for the '59. None of the Optional Equipment lists say anything about a 360HP Engine being available as an option. I bet you the one person who knows about this is Alan Tast! It will be interesting to see what he has to say about this when he gets on the next time.

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
      "It's Hip To Be Square"
      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

      Comment


      • #4
        FYI; Steve Christ's book "Big Block Ford Engines" has much reference to the 360 and specifications as to how it differs from or is the same as other FE Block engines. He states, "FE engines include: 332, 352, 360, 361, 390, 406, 410, 427 and 428" (Page 3). He also writes, "360, 390 & 410 - These three blocks all have 4.05 - in. bores; displacement varies with crankshaft stroke. The 390 is the most common of the three and uses a 3.78-in. stroke. The 360 was only used in pickup truck engines. It uses a 3.50-in. stroke 352 crankshaft. The 410 is found in '66-'67 Mercurys. It uses the standard 428 crankshaft with the 3.98-in. stroke" (Pages 28-29). "FE engines were installed in pickup trucks from 1965 through 1976" (page 3).
        Best Birding,
        Jed Zimmerman
        '58HT and '48 Dodge Panel in MN
        Thunderbird Registry #3810 VTCI#7652
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          The only '58-60 T-Bird engines were the 352, 430, & 352 (2-barrel carb) export engine.

          -Jon
          sigpic
          The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

          VTCI Member#6287.

          Comment


          • #6
            352....with 360HP? Not a '360' CID?

            Comment


            • #7
              360hp 352

              Oh, great, I have to debunk another myth or stop one from starting...again. Ford offered a hi-po 352 that was advertised at 360 hp in 1960 that was used in full-size Fords, but not offered for T-birds. Why? I found a few letters/memos in the Ford Industrial Archives back in '94 when researching "Thunderbird 1955-1966" that addressed this issue. People wrote in asking if they could order the 360 hp engine in a '60 'Bird - responses were authored by Chief Engineer Donald Fry stating in essence the 360 hp engine was too wild of an engine for the typical 'Bird owner to offer as an option. The Cruise-O-Matic was not offered behind the 360 hp 352 because Ford's engineers did not want to beef it up to handle the additional power, and its vacuum output was less than a 300 hp 352 due to a higher-lift/longer duration cam. He in turn recommended ordering the 430 if more power was wanted in a 'Bird.

              Fry pointed out in one response that the higher idle speed, use of mechanical lifters and adjustable rocker arms did not lend themselves to people who weren't accustomed to the higher horsepower and resultant need for more maintenance, adjustments, etc. required to keep the engine running problem-free and in tune. Dealing with warranty issues associated with a high-strung engine, especially in the hands of someone who did not know how to maintain it, was also a concern with Ford management.

              The 360 hp 352 had a bunch of little of differences from the 300 hp 352 - "shorty" cast-iron headers, the aforementioned aluminum intake (BTW I have one of these that I used on my '63 HT until I put an "M"-series tripower on it), Holley 4v carb, open element air cleaner, hotter cam, solid lifters and adjustable rocker arms, dual-point/mechanical advance distributor, larger-diameter pulley for the generator (kind of like the K-code 271 hp 289s), and I think larger valves (need to double check that one).

              I have received claims from people over the years having a hipo 352 in their 'Bird from the factory, but VIN numbers (the 360 was coded 'X' if I remember correctly vs. 'Y' for the 300 hp 352) do not bear this out. The correspondence from Ford's engineering department also helps to confirm this. If a person was serious about getting this engine in a 'Bird they certainly could get ahold of one out of a full-size Ford, but it would not have been a factory installation.

              As for that Hemmings article, if it is from the Hemmings Muscle Car story that ran in one of its first issues, the car in question was a maroon-colored Y-code hardtop that was displayed at the '99 VTCI International at Indianapolis. Its owner claimed it was a NASCAR-ordered car with a manual transmission and 15" wheels (the ROT was coded for Nylon tires but did not indicate anything suggesting other than 14" stock wheels), but there were a bunch of discrepancies that didn't add up: heater, radio and spotlights (I need to double-check the ROT that came out of this car as I have a photo of it on file) don't lend themselves to a "stripper" that would be taken apart to bare bones for racing, and '56 Ford "dog-dish" hubcaps don't help to make a convincing arugment, either. Both Bill VanEss and myself wrote letters to the Editor lambasting them for all the factual errors in that article and in the car itself that was featured, but these apparently fell on deaf ears.
              Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
              Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
              Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA View Post
                Oh, great, I have to debunk another myth or stop one from starting...again.

                LOL....It was a question for the original poster....to see if he meant that the engine was a 352 but with 360HP.

                I am not claiming anything.

                In my Ford Interchange in the Y block section it shows both a 360 and a 352 at 360HP. Though it doesn't try to claim either came in a T-bird.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm sure Ford wanted to push the 430 for the go-fast crowd.
                  In all fairness, there is no way a 360 horse 352 would touch a 430. Those things FLEW . . . even in the big Lincolns. The torque (NOT the horse power) is what gets a 4200 lb car moving.

                  Plus solid lifters. P I T A!!! I had a 65 Mustang with the hi-po 289 and had to adjust those sick things. I also had a 1974 Harley "Shovelhead with em. You have to adjust them with the engine cold. It's a pain.

                  On the other hand . . . back in 60 if you "had to have" a 360 horse 352, a Ford dealer would have been happy to install one (No smog laws - wa-hoo!!!)
                  If you had the money . . . they had the time.
                  San Jose Ford installed the Hi-Perf 390 in the car for my dad (1970 ?)
                  John Byers
                  1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks everyone, but I am going to ask this guy for the serial number of his car. I am just interested in finding out. Also going to find out about the 1960 ford fairlane for sale that claimed a 352/360 HP with Aluminum intake, and all the other stuff like solid lifters, dual point distributor.

                    Wasn't trying to cause a stir, I was just kinda stunned especially when I saw Hemmings back this up (incorrectly so) and Nada listing this as a optional engine for the 1960 Tbird. See ford fairlane below!
                    [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'][/font]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1960 352/360 Hp Engine???

                      Hi Jack! No problems with your posting! It is an interesting discussion and it gave us the opportunity to hear from one of the worlds foremost authorities on these old Birds, as Alan educated us again!

                      BTW, did you ever find yourself another Tbird to replace the one you sold? You sure missed a heck of a steal on here, regarding bcomo's '60 430MEL Black Raven! It is going to a new home in Australia now.

                      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                      "It's Hip To Be Square"
                      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am currently looking as I just started the search. Even though I have to sale another car I just recently bought, my wife is being very understanding on this since I'll have to beg & borrow, and find a place to store my new Tbird once I find it. Thanks for asking. Really miss those squarebirds. Basically sold mine because I was at a car show the day my dad died. Everytime I took it to a show, it brought back those memories. Now, I realize 2 things as we all know. Time heals, and my dad would have wanted me to keep something I really liked.

                        Thanks for asking

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1960 352/360 Hp Engine???

                          Hi Jack!

                          It is always great to have a very understanding wife... I can also understand why you sold the one you had. Yup, and you are right on both things you said.. Now, if I can help you find a replacement, what year,model and color do you think you would like to own? I have helped a lot of the guys look for Tbirds, so let me do some looking for you. I can let you know what I find once I know what you are looking for. The guys and gals on here will be glad to look also, I am sure. It is to bad we could not have hooked you up with Bart's fantastic Black Raven 430MEL, but it will be going to a good home Down Under to a guy who already owns at least one old classic car and will take great care of it. That is a car!

                          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                          '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                          "It's Hip To Be Square"
                          Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by byersmtrco View Post
                            ...there is no way a 360 horse 352 would touch a 430...
                            A subtle understatement, John.
                            Everything you can do to tune a 352 to perfection, you can also do to a 430. There's no substitute for cubic inches. - Dave
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1960 Ford Starliner 352/360hp

                              I bought one of these cars in 1963 from a guy that went to NC State. It sit in the parking lots for months without being started and I finally ran up on the owner and he told me that both headgaskets were blown and the engine was full of water. I bought it for 500 bucks on the spot. It had the gold valve covers with the 352 Cubic Inch 360 HP high performance logo on it. It also had a round gold air cleaner. It has solid lifters, as alum intake and the short headers. I had never seen a 352 engine like this one. I removed the heads (COAE-6090D) with 59.7 cc chambers and shaved them to they were level. We cleaned the water from the engine and bolted everthing back together and the car was a rocket! We later installed the early 406 block and a set of low riser 427 heads and I don't think there was a car in our county that could run beside it. I sold the car when I got drafted into the Army in Feb. 1966. Biggest mistake that I ever made. I still have the original heads and intake manifold and headers for it. I know those 430 birds run good but this car was exceptional. They ran these 60 Fords at Daytona. This car also had 15" tires with 56 Ford hubcaps on it. The original owner said it came from he factory that way!!!!!

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