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Crank, crank, crank.....................start

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  • #46
    I checked the resistance on the longest wire in the new MortorCraft set that I put on. Checked it with my digital and also my analog multimeter. I get 11,400 Ohms. So that's OK.

    So, now the plugs are next.
    Bart
    1960 Hard Top/430
    Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

    Comment


    • #47
      I suppose you could be a skeptic and check the one
      from the coil to the cap... if that one is weak, all the others suffer...
      1958 Hardtop
      #8452 TBird Registry
      http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


      photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
      history:
      http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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      • #48
        That wire is new out of the same MotorCraft box also. I could check the resistance, but what would that tell me? I don't have any spec on the coil wire resistance to compare to.
        Bart
        1960 Hard Top/430
        Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

        Comment


        • #49
          Resistance is proportional to length so if a 24" wire has 12,000 ohms (for sake of discussion) then an 8" wire ought to be in the ballpark of 1/3rd of that or about 4,000 ohms.

          The specific values are not as important as simply looking for a wire which has unusually high resistance (like 100,000 ohms) or is simply open (infinite resistance)

          John
          1958 Hardtop
          #8452 TBird Registry
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


          photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
          history:
          http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

          Comment


          • #50
            I decided to start mine today. Has not been run in a month as the weather has been in the teens. Today is in the mid 30s and I was working in the garage so I decided to let it run for awhile.

            I pumped the pedal about 3 times and cranked it over for about 30 seconds before it ran. Ran pretty ratty for the first 30 seconds or so after that. Seemed like it was not getting gas in that period. My choke was completely closed at first. Probably should be open a tad and needs some fine tuning.

            I had the air filter off and the hood open. I have a see through gas filter and at first you could see the surges of gas being pumped through it. I wonder if the float bowl was pretty empty due to evaporation (I am in an area with the 10% ethanol mix). I should have looked in the little window first on the side of the carb.

            I do have a question for one of you guys who knows carbs alot better than I do (not hard). Once the car starts, isn't the choke - throttle plate supposed to open up some almost immediately?? This is independent of the temperature of anything as it's still stone cold. I have been having problems for a few months with the car running really crummy in the interim between starting and somewhat warmed up. Acts really rich. What can I check or adjust??

            thanks!
            John
            1958 Hardtop
            #8452 TBird Registry
            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


            photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
            history:
            http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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            • #51
              Originally posted by JohnG View Post

              Once the car starts, isn't the choke - throttle plate supposed to open up some almost immediately?? This is independent of the temperature of anything as it's still stone cold. I have been having problems for a few months with the car running really crummy in the interim between starting and somewhat warmed up. Acts really rich. What can I check or adjust??
              This is referred to as the choke pull-off feature. Yours will be a mechanical setting, later engines had an actual vacuum motor to open the valve a pre-determined amount.

              You need to read and understand fully the description in the shop manual. The (your) choke pull-off is actuated by the small piston in the actual choke housing from manifold vacuum.

              If this feature is non-operable, the idle mixture will be extremeley rich.

              Also make sure all choke linkage(s) operate freely. They will become gummed up from filth. Use an aerosol choke cleaner to allow the linkage to operate freely.

              Another feature is called the choke unloader. You know this from keeping the accelerator floored while cranking if the engine has become flooded. When the accelerator pedal is depressed fully, you should see the choke valve open slightly. This is also adjustable.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Anders Myrberg View Post
                ... a brand new Fuel tank also, since the original exploded...
                Whoa, there's a story I'd like to hear.

                Originally posted by bcomo View Post
                It would be very interesting to know how many folks on the forum, can depress the pedal one time, and have it start up. No cheating -- original carb, and no electric fuel pump.
                Mine is all original, I think. Haven't checked but don't ahve any reason to suspect it isn't.

                I honestly don't know if that will work on mine, I suspect not. I follow how Grandpa did it. Cold start, I start pumping the gas and don't stop until it starts. After sitting a while, that will take a few seconds to a minute or three, depending on how long it's been. If it's warm, I don't touch the pedal and it starts pretty much immediately.

                It always starts, though, even when after sitting all winter and I fail to start it.
                DGS (aka salguod)
                1960 Convertible - Raven Black, Red leather
                www.salguod.net

                Comment


                • #53
                  Gary , thanks for the detailed choke system info! I will do some reading in the manual and find out what's out of adjustment.

                  Anders: I wanna hear about that gas tank exploding ! (or at least why you are still a member of this forum!)

                  Now... how long does it take to start?? I ran my 58 today in the garage about 10 hours ago enough to get it warmed up. It is now 38 degrees here and I just went out to start it again. I pumped the gas pedal once and watched the clock. It took 2 seconds to start.

                  The car has the Carter mechanical fuel pump, a Holley replacement carb that is quite old and rebuilt once, beefed up ignition system, and was tuned up last September a little less than a thousand miles ago. (new plugs, dwell and timing set)

                  Later on: my '79 Ford F-150 field truck has not been run in over a month. Goes about 10 miles a year hauling stuff around the property. Today it's 44 degrees out (Fahrenheit). I turned the key on and the electric pump ran for about 5-8 seconds. Pumped the gas pedal twice and it started and ran fine in about 2-3 seconds. (this is a 300 cubic inch straight 6). I include this only because the truck had sat so long (it was not used from August 2007 until December 2008 for want of a functional ignition switch. You could lose a bowling ball through the holes in the floors. So it's not exactly pampered.)

                  John
                  Last edited by JohnG; February 8th, 2009, 01:14 PM.
                  1958 Hardtop
                  #8452 TBird Registry
                  http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                  photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                  history:
                  http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    A week later.... Its 28 degrees out and the TBird has not been run since the last time I posted. Pumped the pedal and watched the clock. 3 maybe 4 seconds and it was running.

                    Think I found the choke problem. It stays totally closed when the car starts and thus gags on too much gas. There is a mechanism on the right side of the Holley near the
                    setting and if I touch it, the throttle opens up and the car
                    idles pretty smoothly.

                    2/21. Been sitting for another week. 22 degrees here. 3 pumps, 4 seconds and its running. A little ragged for a few seconds but fine after that.
                    john
                    Last edited by JohnG; February 21st, 2009, 08:06 AM.
                    1958 Hardtop
                    #8452 TBird Registry
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                    photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                    history:
                    http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Fuel tank story: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...?t=4252&page=2

                      After having the leak, I took it out of the car, so a guy, recommended as he was suppose to be good at this ( " have done plenty without any problem" ),.... could solder it.
                      Well, after washing it out a few times with water, he took ( not sure about the correct english word here...) that same thing you use for solder with gas, from a tube (?), and put the fire in the hole to be sure.... Bang! And the tank flew quite a distance to be honest, and looked pretty round after that.
                      He felt realy bad, and tryed to massage it back, and fixed the leak. He didnīt charge me for the job
                      I ordered a new one from Larrys. Made in Canada as a matter of fact.
                      Last edited by Anders; February 15th, 2009, 01:39 PM.
                      sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                      http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Ok guys,
                        Sorry for the delay, life happens. I just got the carb back, put it on the car, followed the specific instructions on starting the car and she turned right over!!!! waited a couple of days, pushed the pedal all the way to the floor once, cranked and she started right up in an instant!!! Only problem was that the fast idle would not release. Problem was that my heat tube for the carb off the passengers exhaust manifold was blocked, so no hot air to the choke spring to activate it (learning all the time!). Reamed it out and know it works perfectly! The starting procedure is as follows: push the pedal all the way to the floor to activate the choke (with the air cleaner off, you will see the choke plate close). If it has sat for a few days try and crank a short time, if it does not start pump the pedal 2-3 times crank with FOOT OFF PEDAL, if no start, 2-3 more pumps, crank with FOOT OFF PEDAL and it WILL start, if set up correctly. If the car has sat for more time (over a week), then crank WITHOUT TOUCHING THE GAS PEDAL for 10 seconds to refill the bowels (todays gas evaperates very quickly). Pump the gas pedal 6 times then crank WITH FOOT OFF GAS, no start, pump 6 more times and crank WITH FOOT OFF GAS and it will (should) start. The car runs flawlessly now!! BIG PROPS TO PONY CARBERATORS. These guys really know their Ford carbs and do a perfect job on them HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!!!!!!. Deal with John, the owner. Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!! About time I can help you guys out!!!!
                        Greg

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                        • #57
                          John,
                          Call Pony Carburator, ask to talk to John. He is a wealth of knowledge on these carbs and can tell you exactly what is wrong. Should not have to touch the fast idel speed cam to get it to open up the choke plate. Check your heat tube for the carb, ensure it is not plugged (from exhaust manifold to the side of the carb) OR the opening in the manifold where it goes into is not clogged. My understaning is that it is a winding tube that is behind the metal plate on the inside of the manifold where the tube goes into and exits out the short tube that comes out pointing to the firewall). Try blowing compressed air into the tube, then into the opeing in the manifold. the air should come out the other end (on the manifold it should come out the end that has the short tube coming out pointing tward the end of the exhaust manifold. Hope this wordiness helps
                          Greg

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                          • #58
                            hi Greg

                            thanks much for your information and help!!

                            John
                            1958 Hardtop
                            #8452 TBird Registry
                            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                            photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                            history:
                            http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bcomo View Post
                              I have full battery voltage going to the Pertronix coil. Measured both while cranking, and during run.
                              Well I just found out this morning I do NOT have 12-volts to the coil, I guess the original wiring has a resistor built-in?

                              It was 6 to 8 volts at the coil.

                              Can I run a wire from the power-window relay that is mounted on the firewall to get an ignition-key controlled 12-volt source??
                              (This is on a '66, somebody had fitted a Petronix system - with Mexican coil - to it)

                              Thanks in anticipation of the advice guys!
                              A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by scumdog View Post

                                Well I just found out this morning I do NOT have 12-volts to the coil, I guess the original wiring has a resistor built-in?

                                It was 6 to 8 volts at the coil.

                                Can I run a wire from the power-window relay that is mounted on the firewall to get an ignition-key controlled 12-volt source??
                                (This is on a '66, somebody had fitted a Petronix system - with Mexican coil - to it)
                                Yes, but also put an inline fuse in the choke circuit to protect it. Get a PERTRONIX FLAMETHROWER coil as this will be 12V sourced also.

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