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1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

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  • 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

    Hi! I been on the board before when I bought my 60 T-Bird with a sunroof in Nov 2004. My Pwr Str started to leak and now I am noticing that the PWR Str is for a 64-66 T-Bird. (long fill neck) Also the generator is out of align. (as well as the pwr str.) On Further investigation I think I have a C-6 Transmission instead of cruise-O-matic. (Obviously my first ford buy.)

    Question? Where do I find the casting number on the block to determine the engine I have? ALso the trans. I truly believe it's a 1964 390 engine. Also if it's a 390 where to I search for the correct brackets for the Str Pump & Generator? Can I install a alternaor on this now? Sorry about all the questions.

    I am just very confused.

    Thanks guys!

  • #2
    RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

    The casting number of the engine is on the side of the block near the engine mounts.

    The 390 is not any different than the 352 externally. The original brackets from the 1960 Thunderbird should fit.

    You can put an alternator in. Several suppliers make an alternator bracket for these cars. http://www-link.com/cgi-bin/odbic.ex...lientno=1681.0

    Alexander
    1959 Hardtop
    1960 Golde Top
    Alexander
    1959 Hard Top
    1960 Golde Top
    sigpic

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    • #3
      RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

      Thanks Alexander.
      That was quite helpful. I just have to figure out why the belts don't align with the pulleys on the flywheel and water pump. I'll also check out the site on the alternator. Love this site. It so helpful for us TBIRD fantactics.

      Take care!


      Comment


      • #4
        RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

        Welcome to the Forum!

        The only way to confirm for sure that it is a 390 is the stroke. The 390 has 3.78" the 352 is 3.50". You can measure this by removing a spark plug and putting a clothes hanger wire against the top of the piston. turn the engine over by hand till the wire is all the way down...put a mark on the wire, this will signify the bottom of the stroke. Then turn the engine over by hand till the piston is all the way up. Mark the wire again. The distance between the two marks is your stroke. It is easiest if two people do this, one holding the wire one turning the engine over. What makes you think you have a 390? I have a rebuilt 1961 390 in my 60, looks just like a 352,also, most of the blocks have 352 cast on them, even if they are 390's. If I remember correctly the water pumps on the newer engines are different. This may cause the alignment problem with the stock generator brackets.



        Steve

        1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears
        390, Mild Cam, Headers, 3.70 rear, 2-1/2" Exhaust, Edelbrok Performer RPM Intake, Holley Street Avenger 670 Carburetor, One Wire Alt, Petronix Ignition. She's All Go and No Show.

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        • #5
          RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

          Hi Steve!

          Thanks for replying! I guess I am thinking it's not a 352 becuase 1. the Power steering pump has the long filler neck that comes from a 64-66 T-bird and 2, because of the bad alignment of both parts to the pulleys. (The Pwr Str Pump & the generator) Actually the generator is in worst alignment then the pump because it squeals something awful.

          I also saw a bill I pulled out from two owners ago that said he rebuilt a C-6 trans.

          Anyway, if it is a 352, which I hope it is, how do I solve this alignment problem. Just to give you an idea, the pump and generator are behind the crank shaft pulley by (estimate- 3/4 to 1 1/2" at least)

          Thanks for the tip on the 352 vs 390, I see if I can get my neighbor to help me out on that one on the weekend.

          Take care! I really love the car, and want to get it going.

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          • #6
            Re: 1960 Tbird- What Engine??

            My 60 has a 390. And the block says 352 right on it. Mine however has the 352 Interceptor heads, int & exh manifolds. It also has all the stock 1960 linkage, brackets, pulleys, belts and etc. So whatever you have, best bet is get all the matching brkts pulleys and hardware. that way everything lines up. There is a kit to install a GM alternator (ugly brkts though). The alt in the kit is a low output though. Not even 50 amps. So it's not a great upgrade from the stk generator. I've had little or no generator problems, so I can't see changing over.

            My one question for the evening is, has anyone installed a hvy duty four row radiator in any of their early Fords? I'm wondering if that helped.

            John Byers

            ________
            Lesbian Asslicking
            Last edited by byersmtrco; April 5th, 2011, 11:03 AM.
            John Byers
            1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
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            • #7
              RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

              Hi John!

              Thanks for the reply. Well I have to see what it is but I know it's either a 390 or 352. The thing that leans me to the 390 is that the PWr Str pump is from a 64-66 Tbird. Now, whether those parts are interchangable I don't know. Any clue???

              I though I saw that the pulley brackets where the same up to 1966. Hopefully someone might correct me on that delusion also.

              Well, time, patience and help from you guys & gals will help solve this one.

              Still love the car!!!!

              Thanks- Jack

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              • #8
                RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                I am not familiar with the newer power steering pumps, but I can not understand being that much out of alignment. Is the generator bolted to the front mount and adjusting bracket and is the back of the generator bolted to the block? Does the crank pulley and fan pulley line up OK? What does the fan pulley look like, is it long and tapered or short and flat? What does the power steering pump bracket look like. On the Squarebirds, the PS bracket is a piece of steel that is about 1/2 inch thick and about 2 or 2 1/2 wide with two 45 degree bends in it. Does the crank pulley have two or one grooves in it. If it has two groves it, it was originally set up for air conditioning. If this is the case you may just be in the wrong groove. If you can check these things out,perhaps someone can figure this out.



                Steve

                1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears
                390, Mild Cam, Headers, 3.70 rear, 2-1/2" Exhaust, Edelbrok Performer RPM Intake, Holley Street Avenger 670 Carburetor, One Wire Alt, Petronix Ignition. She's All Go and No Show.

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                • #9
                  RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                  Thanks Steve!

                  I am taking a half day off today and I am crawling under the car to check this out. It baffles me too. I had a 58 & 64 pontiac and never seen anything like this so, I am hoping it's something easy. Having you expertise behind me, gives me alot of ideas and things to look for, otherwise I be in big time trouble. So again, thanks for your time and your help. I really appreciate it! Also, I will let you know the solution when I determine it, so that others after me, will have some info!




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                  • #10
                    RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                    Hi Alexander!

                    Well I was under there and the number by the engine mounts on the block were- "C4AF" or the last could of been "E". There was a number right below it but I could barely make it out it could of been "O15A".
                    (Not sure)


                    Also the number off the P/S pump was;
                    HBA-AH-1
                    II F
                    4M 18 B

                    The motor mount number was C6SZ-6038

                    Does this give any clue to the engine type? 352 or 390?

                    Thanks
                    Jack

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                    • #11
                      RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                      Hi Steve!

                      Answers hopefully to your questions.

                      Is the generator bolted to the front mount and adjusting bracket and is the back of the generator bolted to the block? YES IT IS!

                      Does the crank pulley and fan pulley line up OK? I HAVE IT OFF THE CAR BUT I BELIEVE IT DOES.

                      THE FAN PULLEY IS SHORT AND FLAT WITH 3 GROOVE FOR BELTS. It's about 9 " in depth.

                      I SAY THE P/S BRACKET IS ABOUT 1/4" THK AND WIDTH IS 7 3/4 " AND ABOUT 13 1/2" LONG. (I measure it.) Though I see what you're talking about cause I see one in Larry's Thunderbird catalog on Pg 27.

                      The crank Pulley has two grooves. One for the power steering pump & one for the generator. The P/S belt just connects to the crabkcase pulley. The generator belt loops around the fan pulley and the crankcase pulley.

                      P/S pump number there was a tag for it. the number is:

                      HBA-AH-1
                      II F
                      4M 18 B

                      So right now I still up in the air as to which pump to order because of the bracket problem and alignment.

                      However, the generator bracket, (the top front with the u in it) was cracked in half at the lower end where it bolts into the engine block. I am having that welded and will pick that up Wednesday.

                      Jack (bewilder in Naperville, Il.)


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                      • #12
                        RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                        All that casting number C4AE tells is that the engine is from 1964. It is probably a 390, but it still could be a 352 or 427. I there a letter after that casting number?

                        Alexander
                        1959 Hardtop
                        1960 Golde Top
                        Alexander
                        1959 Hard Top
                        1960 Golde Top
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                          HI Alexander!

                          Thanks again. I didn't see one, but I'll try again after work if it doesn't snow today. The car is now outside. (Covered of course.)

                          Take care!

                          Jack

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                          • #14
                            RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                            Hi Alexander!

                            Just found something interesting that might help determine that it's a 390 or not. As I was going thru bills that the previous owner gave me, I saw this small bill from some auto salvage yard in Texas. On the bill it says "390 exhaust manifold". Now, I don't know if the manifolds are swapable between a 352 & a 390. Do you??

                            Thanks again!

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                            • #15
                              RE: 1960 TBIRD- WHAT ENGINE??

                              I am pretty sure that the exhaust manifolds are the same for 352-390. I can not tell what you have for sure. I am pretty sure that it is a newer engine set up. As far as cubic inch's, you will have to check the stroke. I do not understand how your generator could be out of alignment if it is bolted to the block, as that combined with the length of the generator would set the distance to match the crank pulley. I am assuming that you have the old style std. generator??? If not it's a whole new ball game. Perhaps you could post some photos, someone will be able to figure it out.







                              Steve

                              1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears
                              390, Mild Cam, Headers, 3.70 rear, 2-1/2" Exhaust, Edelbrok Performer RPM Intake, Holley Street Avenger 670 Carburetor, One Wire Alt, Petronix Ignition. She's All Go and No Show.

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