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  • #31
    The generator shop called today and said that the problem is in the armature winding itself. The field coils, brushes and springs were not the problem.

    I told them to rebuild mine completely- new armature, brushes, front and rear bushings. This also includes a new heavy duty voltage regulator, tuned to the rebuilt generator.

    Total cost is $135 for everything with 1 year warranty. I'm happy with that. The 430 with A/C generator is a 35 Amp unit, which is hard to find anyway, and this one will bolt in.

    JohnG gave good advice on having a good in town Auto Electric shop rebuild mine -- Thanks John.
    Bart
    1960 Hard Top/430
    Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

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    • #32
      Generator Installation

      My rebuilt Generator and new voltage regulator came back from the shop today. The generator took about 30 min. to install and the regulator about 15 min. Installing the generator was very easy (with just two hands) using the two little 1/4" by 2" bolts that I used to take it out.



      Here's what I did to install it:

      1. Disconect the Positive lead on the battery.

      2. Jack the car up, and use jack stands

      3. Put the generator in a small cardboard box that you can slide under the car to your left side.

      4. Take both of the safety pins and hold them in your mouth during the next step.

      5. Generator goes in with the mounting ears up, and then rotated counter-clockwise, so that the mounting lugs are on the outside of the bracket.

      5. While holding the generator against the mounting bracket, slide one of the safety pins into the bolt hole. Do the same with the other pin. The generator is secure now.

      6. Remove one of the safety pins and replace it with the mounting bolt and nut. Do the same with the other pin. Using 11/16 and 5/8 box wrenches snug the two bolts and nuts that hold the generator to the bracket.

      7. Swing the Generator up about 1 inch, and slide the fan belt(s) onto the pulley.

      8. Insert the belt tension bolt, put tension on the belt, and tighten the bolt. (This was the hardest part of the job)

      9. Tighten the two generator bolts to the bracket.

      10. Using two 3/8 small ignition wrenches, install the three generator wires. IMPORTANT: Dont' mix the Ground wire with the Field wire next to it.

      The generator works great. I have absolutely NO light at low RPM, in drive, with lights on. Voltage from the generator to the regulator at the Armature (ARM) terminal is 14 Volts. I think that having the regulator adjusted to the generator is a big plus in how the generator operates.

      Thanks for everyone's help and advice in getting this done.
      Bart
      1960 Hard Top/430
      Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

      Comment


      • #33
        Thanks for the steps!! I have printed them up and stashed them in the Shop Manual when/if I have to install one. I don't really recall what went wrong but every move I tried resulted in something rotating on me and not working.

        If anyone should need it, somewhere on this site, Alexander has instructions for polarizing a generator.

        I'm glad you guys had good success! I have a personal philosophy that finding quality, old school shops that focus on one area (electrics, cooling, trannys and so on) and making proper use of them is part of the old car hobby. I would rather get an existing item overhauled, tested and backed up than buy something from a stranger sitting at a computer through the mail. This doesn't always work but mostly does. It also provides a resource to make a phone call to now and then in a pinch. I live in the Northeast (MA) and in the old cities are usually such shops on back streets in old brick buildings. No web sites. When I wanted to get my starter motor checked out a couple winters ago, I walked into one and a 30 year old clerk looked up at me "Ford starter? late 50s?" and I knew I was in the right place.

        john
        1958 Hardtop
        #8452 TBird Registry
        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


        photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
        history:
        http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

        Comment


        • #34
          John:

          I know what you mean about that generator -- 25 lbs gets heavy pretty darned quick. Those little safety pin bolts are what saved the day, and took the weight off fast.

          You are 100% right. This was an OLD shop in the OLD part of town -- old generator and starter parts all over the place -- scared the heck out of me at first. But, they did a great job -- AND a 1 year guarantee (not 90 days like we're used to).

          I probably need to do a post on checking the charging system with a Voltmeter. Your voltmeter readings really helped me check out the generator and regulator.
          Bart
          1960 Hard Top/430
          Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

          Comment


          • #35
            Generator light on all the time

            OK...my turn! I was out driving this morning when the light came on and, except for a few minutes, has stayed on since then.

            I put the multimeter on the battery with the car running and there is about 12.4 Volts across it, does not vary.

            I changed Voltage Regulator for the heck of it (I have an NOS one as a spare) and nothing changed but I got to clean all the connections at that end.

            So with the car running I took the voltage between the Field post on the Voltage Regulator (the middle one) and ground and only got about .8 volts, which increases to about 2 volts if the engine is revved up.

            I then took the voltage between the Arm post on the Voltage Regulator and ground and got no more than 4 volts by revving it up. ( I have an earlier post with values I got a couple of weeks ago when it was running correctly).

            For anyone who knows generator systems well,

            a) is there anything here that jumps out at you as the cause of the problem? (open field? ...)

            b) is there any other test I should perform before I haul it out and off to the shop??

            thanks!
            John
            58 Hardtop
            1958 Hardtop
            #8452 TBird Registry
            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


            photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
            history:
            http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

            Comment


            • #36
              JohnG:

              Geez -- If you need me to take any voltage readings for you, just say the word. You helped me alot when I needed it.

              You could make a 4 ft jumper (to take readings from the top of the car) -- and take a reading from the ARM terminal directly on the generator to ground and FLD terminal to ground. But, I would think that you'll probably get the same voltages as from the regulator unless you have frayed wires.

              Sorry that I can't help more.
              Last edited by bcomo; August 12th, 2007, 09:27 PM.
              Bart
              1960 Hard Top/430
              Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

              Comment


              • #37
                My thinking at this point is that the problem lies in one of the following:

                a) bad wiring
                b) worn brushes
                c) internal problem in generator requiring a shop


                a) is always possible

                b) I had the generator off the car a couple of years ago, took it apart and the brushes were in good shape. That was about 5000 miles ago and I really don't know how fast these things wear but I can't take it for granted. There is also the possibility that the brushes are not moving freely in their holders and therefore not exerting enough pressure against the commutator. Carbon deposits can do that over time.

                c) I don't know how to interpret the voltages I got, esp the low voltage on the Arm post of the regulator.

                So if nothing else, the nice procedure you provided for removal and installation of a generator will soon come in handy!!

                John
                58 Hardtop - daytime use only !
                1958 Hardtop
                #8452 TBird Registry
                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                history:
                http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                Comment

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