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430 water pump - questions

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  • 430 water pump - questions

    I was going to replace my 4-blade fan with the 5-blade version for better cooling. I noticed that the fan and pulley "rock" giving about 1/8" movement at the tip of the fan blade. I think this means that the water pump bearings are going bad, but I don't know what "normal" would be. There is no weeping or leakage anywhere, but I do think it is making excessive noise but can't be sure.

    I just bought a 58 Edsel pump with correct P/N & casting codes on Ebay for $35. I can send it out to Bird Nest and they will rebuild it for $160. I also found a couple of places that rebuild water pumps: Water Pump Man and Egge Machine. I don't know the cost yet; I'll have to call them.

    If I could locate a kit, I'm sure I could rebuild it myself. Any thoughts? Should I just have the spare one rebuilt?

    Thanks,

    John

    John Orwin
    1960 HT 430
    VTCI #11290
    Tbird Registry #1590

  • #2
    As of last year rock Auto offered a rebuild service for about $75. Just looked and it is not listed anymore, possibly calling them they might still offer it?

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    • #3
      The "play" I have may be normal. Can someone pull on their fan blade and see how much movement at the tip (front to back)? I would assume that the 352 and 430 water pumps would be similar so the test doesn't have to be on a 430.

      John Orwin
      1960 HT 430
      VTCI #11290
      Tbird Registry #1590

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      • #4
        Your water pump uses a cartridge type bearing that is non adjustable. The cartridge has a rubber seal and the shaft also has a seal. There is no 'normal' play, the bearing is failing but the seals are still good and have not begun to leak.

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        • #5
          That makes sense. The spare pump I bought has not arrived (see pics). If the bearing feels OK, should I just install it or bite the bullet and pay $160 to rebuild it. I could have the pump on the car rebuilt but I'm trying to avoid the downtime.

          John Orwin
          1960 HT 430
          VTCI #11290
          Tbird Registry #1590

          Comment


          • #6
            That's kind of subjective to me. From the look of the pics the shaft has never been removed, so regardless you're looking at a water pump that's minimum 59 or more years old. I'd rebuild it as the hassle to install, find a leak, remove and rebuild surpasses the pain initially.
            Scott
            South Delta, BC, Canada
            1960 White T-Bird, PS, PB that's it
            Red Leather Interior!
            www.squarebirds.org/users/sidewalkman
            Thunderbird Registry #61266
            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...ibrary/trl.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe you can have a water pump rebuilt with modern materials that improve it reliability. Perhaps contact http://www.arthurgouldrebuilders.com/ as they do this and can discuss.

              By comparison on rebuilds with older materials I am told that there is a shelf life limit to the pump just sitting and not being installed. So if you buy one that was done with the older materials, how do you know if it sat too long? The engines we all work on (352s and 430s) are not really part of a high volume market hence things can sit on shelves.

              John
              1958 Hardtop
              #8452 TBird Registry
              http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

              photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
              history:
              http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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              • #8
                Can also get a new one. I got one of these, seems decent, but have not installed yet.

                https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1963-19...EAAOSwulFcgWcv
                59-430-HT

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                • #9
                  These are all good ideas. The pump pictured has arrived and it really needs to be rebuilt, The casting is OK but everything else needs to be renewed.

                  I am looking into a rebuild kit from Carl Heller, but without a press and the special fixtures, I'm a little bit intimidated.

                  OX1 - The pump you bought on Ebay seems to have a pressed on pulley which may be right for Lincoln but not for SquareBird. How did you deal with that?

                  I Will contact Arthur Gould on rebuilding mine.

                  Thanks!
                  John Orwin
                  1960 HT 430
                  VTCI #11290
                  Tbird Registry #1590

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    John, let us know what you find out from Arthur Gould that is of interest. They changed ownership and moved since I had stuff done (were in NY state, now in MA and by chance I go
                    by there on the way to work).

                    They do fuel pumps too. Again, modern materials more resistant to current gasoline.

                    john
                    1958 Hardtop
                    #8452 TBird Registry
                    http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

                    photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                    history:
                    http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I talked to Arthur Gould - 100$ to 125$ to rebuild my water pump. The description of their process on the website is impressive. I think I will send it to them.

                      John
                      John Orwin
                      1960 HT 430
                      VTCI #11290
                      Tbird Registry #1590

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by orwin View Post
                        OX1 - The pump you bought on Ebay seems to have a pressed on pulley which may be right for Lincoln but not for SquareBird. How did you deal with that?

                        Thanks!
                        Those 2 pulleys are the same distance from mount surface of water pump outlets, to pulleys.
                        Dia is hair smaller, but I bought that setup to use with eventual AC install, so spinning pump a bit faster was OK with me.

                        These stock dual pulleys.

                        http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...27_194008a.jpg

                        are this Dia.

                        http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...27_193843a.jpg

                        This is Dia on Lincoln pump dual pulleys.

                        http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...27_194616a.jpg

                        I went this route as A, it fits, and B was easy to find 3rd pulley for AC from a Lincoln.

                        http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...Y/IMG_1864.JPG

                        http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...Y/IMG_1865.JPG

                        No one makes or has the AC compressor bracket, so I will have to make my own, someday.
                        59-430-HT

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