Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

something else to fix....

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • something else to fix....

    IMG_3464.jpg IMG_3466.jpg IMG_3467.jpg Why did Ford ever make the lower part of quarter window frames out of pot metal? I know the answer of course....cost. But it was a bad idea. Last fall the frame of the passenger side quarter window suddenly broke while I was lowering the power window. I am attaching several pictures. The slot that holds the two rollers broke at the rear-most part. I had reinforced the rail per Nyles technique using small angle iron to support the track. The break occurred at the back of the slot as one can see. Somehow I guess the power mechanism pulled the piece apart; that is something else I will need to check out. I have another quarter window frame but the chrome is a little pitted and not as nice as one that broke. So, even though I have a spare, I think I will try to make some kind of repair and reinforcement on this piece. Obviously the break point is subject to some serious force so a repair may not be possible. But maybe I can come up with something. I will post my effort but if anyone else has faced this and has a suggestion or solution I would appreciate a post. Thanks. Kim


  • #2
    Originally posted by kimmc View Post
    ...Obviously the break point is subject to some serious force so a repair may not be possible...
    Looks to me like the arms exerted a lot of pressure pulling the window DOWN. Why? From my chair in Royal Oak, MI, I suspect the glass is binding terribly.

    I'm not making excuses for pot metal but... the window worked well for many decades. What changed? Are the cat whiskers gone? The worst problems I've seen with these tracks is that they distort so much that the rollers come out of the track. This is different. Pulling the window down should take less effort (and less stress) than raising it.

    Get ahold of a good welder. They make rod that works on pot metal and aluminum. Both surfaces must be beveled and CLEAN, using a stainless brush. - Dave

    My latest project:
    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

    From: Royal Oak, Michigan

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's an example on youtube for welding pot metal: CLICK HERE
       
      My latest project:
      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
      --Lee Iacocca

      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Dave. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the track broke during the down force but something had changed in there to cause that. The window, regulator, rubber seals, and "whiskers" were all complete and the window had been raised and lower during the previous year of use. I think something must have come loose and the regulator adjustment was out of whack. When I removed the window there were a couple of nuts that were "finger" tight, however the rollers were still properly engaged in the track. I probably should pull the trim and check the driver side quarter window now just to make sure all is ok there. I had previously watched the You Tube demo of the Muggyweld product and now have the product but have not tried it yet. But I am not going to rely on that "weld" alone in that spot. In addition to the weld, I plan to reinforce the joint with a fabricated steel piece to hold things together. I will post the result. I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. Kim

        Comment


        • #5
          Most windows (especially manual windows) have a big 'clock spring' to counterbalance and hold the window from falling down. Take the hairpin 'E-clips' out of the rollers to disconnect the cross arms and run the window manually (by hand) up and down lots of times. Get a feel for the resistance, then find the bind. After repairing, re-assemble. Welding or fabricating another piece does not address the root cause, especially since the down-force was great enough to break the track. As I said, this setup worked for many decades and I've never seen one break although I've seen many that warped.

          I would weld the part with an extra gusset on the bottom side just to add strength. That added piece of steel is a good idea but with only one screw on each end it would simply pivot on each screw. A much wider piece with two screws on each end would be more solid. I think I see air between the steel and the track, which offers no reinforcement to stop the track from flexing. The steel reinforcement doesn't need to be thicker than 12ga but it does need to be wide and the screw holes should be tight or tapped with the help of Loctite. Hope this helps - Dave
          My latest project:
          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Dave. I agree with all you said. When I initially installed the window I did run the regulator up and down to make sure the travel was free and the window adjusted properly. What I need to figure out is how to "manually" run the regulator up and down with the motor detached. Turning the drive shaft by hand is real tedious and it takes many many turns to move the regulator just inches. I have some ideas though. Also, I agree with your steel gusset suggestion and I was thinking the same thing. I disassembled the window yesterday and took the frame to be professionally "welded". I probably will start working on a gusset this week. By the way, after I had the window out, I ran the regulator up and down with the motor and that part of it seemed to work ok. I just have to figure out what seized up and why. As you know, the window space is pretty well enclosed making access and the ability to see what is going more difficult. But, I will stick with it. Sure wish I could have 30 minutes with one of the guys that did the window install and adjustment back in early '59! Thanks again. Kim

            Comment


            • #7
              Battery powered right angle drills work for turning the regulator.
              Todd Gilroy
              1960 Tbird Convertible
              Thunderbird Registry #54651

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, I was going to give that a try using a flexible extension and small chuck. Thanks. Go Big Red! and "All the way to Roca!" circa 1965.

                Comment


                • #9
                  For moving a power window up and down with the window motor removed, I made a little tool out of copper tubing about eight inches long and crimped the one end to make it the size of the window regulator nubbin. Slips on easily and and then you can just spin it one way or the other. Though not as fast as a power drill, does save the knuckles and works pretty good.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Please post a picture of your tool in action - I'm sure others want to see what works!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Will post a pic on the weekend.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        All of these ideas are really good; right angle drill, flexible extension, crimped copper tubing... I may be barking up the wrong tree but I think the bind is more likely in the window track IF I can assume the actuating scissors arms are square with the window. Yes, space inside the 'pocket' is confining but to simply try the glass, most of the trial can be done from the top side, by hand, with the rollers disengaged. If you can easily cycle the glass by hand, the motor won't labor at all. I still can't get over a broken track from lowering the glass.

                        Certainly, There are many points of adjustment, there is a learning curve and the heII of it is, once experience kicks in you may never need to adjust another quarter glass again. The Shop Manual offers a little help but this is custom work and every car is different. If you start with the basics without jumping ahead you will reach success quicker. When you get there the feeling is very gratifying.

                        This work is so daunting, many body shops would rather buy a complete door assembly from a junk yard rather than 'messing with' window adjustments because they don't do it very often. In the assembly plant, line workers set sidelite glass, one per minute or 60 per hour. At an arbitrary rate of $50/ hr, labor figures out to ~84 per glass. Let's get generous and double the labor cost... Offer a body shop $1.70 to set glass (windshields, backlites and sidelites all take the same minute to install). The point is, this work is done by professional union assemblers that make it look easy and every car, 480 per shift, comes out perfect. You just need to know where to kick the tire. 'Repair' guys use their cordless drill motor battery to run the window motor because the car battery isn't installed yet.
                        My latest project:
                        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                        --Lee Iacocca

                        From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X