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installed new cam and now a miss

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  • #31
    Possibly just plain too much timing advance when the vacuum advance is hooked up?
    A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.

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    • #32
      Ya i have to agree at this point. its driving around just fine with it plugged. havent driven enough to know if mpg changed at all. but with so many changes who knows what did what.

      Originally posted by scumdog View Post
      Possibly just plain too much timing advance when the vacuum advance is hooked up?
      1959 Thunderbird 397ci
      Cruise-O-Matic
      Flamingo Pink.
      Thunderbird Registry #8442
      Daily driver

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      • #33
        So was driving last friday and car died. after all trouble shooting i found out that the cotter pin that holds the distro gear in place broke. It is a new distro. apparently after some research it says iron distro gears are not compatable with steel camshafts. I have returned the distro. Now i need the experts here to lay some advise on me. I could hear some excess noise when reving from the distro prior. that was the reason i bought a new distro. noise was still there but i figured that maybe i was hearing things.

        Anywho,

        1. Can someone recommend a good distro? i have an accel ignition coil already. part number or links would be extremely appreciated

        2. assuming that i need to get a bronze or composite distro gear to go with the comp cams steel camshaft. it is not a roller cam fyi.

        the issue from what i have seen is i cant find a composite distro gear for the FE352 engine. I can only find bronze one and it says that they are not intended street use.
        1959 Thunderbird 397ci
        Cruise-O-Matic
        Flamingo Pink.
        Thunderbird Registry #8442
        Daily driver

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        • #34
          Side note- there was no excessive wear on the distro gear. it appeared that the alignment was good with the cam.

          Side note 2- the distro lasted about 100 miles before failure.
          1959 Thunderbird 397ci
          Cruise-O-Matic
          Flamingo Pink.
          Thunderbird Registry #8442
          Daily driver

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
            ...2. assuming that i need to get a bronze or composite distro gear to go with the comp cams steel camshaft. it is not a roller cam fyi.

            the issue from what i have seen is i cant find a composite distro gear for the FE352 engine. I can only find bronze one and it says that they are not intended street use.
            Since this is a Comp Cams product, you should call Comp Cams at 800-999-0853. They will tell you what to get. In fact, Comp Cams sells gears to go along with their cams.

            The pin that goes through the distributor gear and shaft is not a soft cotter pin, it is a spring steel 'split roll pin'. This makes a huge difference.

            I have more questions as I think about the 'train of power' that the distributor completes and your account of events; you heard a noise and the roll pin failed.

            The gear is only the beginning of this process. The distributor itself has very little resistance. The oil pump is another story because not only does oil go through it but also everything the oil sucks up with it. Oil filtration comes after the oil pump. I have seen steel pieces embedded in oil pump gears. Think about the load that puts on the intermediate shaft and distributor gear (through the distributor shaft).

            I suspect, the noise you heard was from your oil pump and the mechanical load on the pump is what caused the roll pin to shear.

            So, here are my questions:
            • How did the roll pin fail?
              • Did it shear off?
              • Did it simply fall out?
            • Is the distributor shaft easy to rotate by hand?
            • What shape is the intermediate shaft in?
              • Is it twisted?
              • Does the intermediate shaft turn easily with a drill motor running in reverse?


            I don't know a lot about your engine or cam install. Is this an engine rebuild? If so, you need to alert the builder. In any case, your problems are serious. I would pull the pan, inspect the oil pump gears and change the intermediate shaft. If the oil pump gear rotors are worn or nasty I would replace the pump as well. - Dave
            My latest project:
            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

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            • #36
              So, here are my questions:

              How did the roll pin fail?
              it broke on the inside of the gear on both sides at the point where it touches the shaft

              Did it shear off?
              yes

              Did it simply fall out?
              no. it defiantly snapped

              Is the distributor shaft easy to rotate by hand?
              yes. i could spin it with my pinkie with little effort

              What shape is the intermediate shaft in?
              i have to take it out to examine. i have a normal oil pump-new. maybe 2000 miles on it or so. it did seem like there was a little side to side play in it. regardless of what position it was in.

              Is it twisted?
              ill have to check

              Does the intermediate shaft turn easily with a drill motor running in reverse?
              havent tried since the issue. need to drain oil to get any potential bits of the shaft out of the engine.

              before that i used a drill to pump up the lifters and had no apparent resistance at the time. i tried with a screwdriver first and it was easy to turn but realized i couldn't do it fast enough to pump up the oil. this was prior to starting the engine for the first time after the new cam install.

              it was not a rebuild. i did it myself and realize there could be some issue there but it was a fairly cut and dry project. i re-seated the valves by hand and my compression before and after was close to the same if not a bit higher after. that being said i kept forgetting that i need to prop the throttle open when doing that.
              1959 Thunderbird 397ci
              Cruise-O-Matic
              Flamingo Pink.
              Thunderbird Registry #8442
              Daily driver

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
                ...it was not a rebuild. i did it myself...
                There's nothing wrong with doing your own work. You may not have initial experience but do-it-yourselfers spend more time on their project which usually means it comes out very well.

                Compression tests are important but this is different. In my opinion, even more serious because we're dealing with the 'life-blood' of your engine.

                I suggest you drop the pan and clean it out very well. Remove the oil pump. On your bench, take the bottom plate off and pull out the rotors for close inspection. 2,000 miles is not much for an oil pump but and debris will kill it quickly.

                If the rotors look good, measure the clearances with a feeler gauge (follow your Shop Manual). Take pictures as you go along.

                If the pump checks out ok, you can reinstall it. If you find evidence of an obstruction, get a new one AND a new intermediate shaft.

                I suspect your distributor never had anything wrong with it. The mechanical 'shock' from the pump sheared the roll pin. Thank God the sheared pin stopped any further d@mage. - Dave
                My latest project:
                CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                --Lee Iacocca

                Comment


                • #38
                  The flat tappet camshaft is of iron material, USE IRON distributor gears, NOT steel, NOT bronze, NOT composite.

                  How was the "fit" of the the gear to the distributor shaft, interference, or slip fit? And who's the manufacturer of the new' or did you mean rebuilt, distributor?

                  I would advise removal of the oil filter, section the can, removing the filter element, and inspect for particulate of unacceptability.

                  Also in the discussions concerning the "missing" within the functioning of the engine, perhaps associated with a potential timing issue, you never stated what the engines' actual ignition timing values were, as witnessed with a timing light (perhaps I missed this)?

                  Scott.

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                  • #39
                    I believe the new camshaft is steel. It is a COMP Cams 265DEH.

                    The distro was a Spectra or Spectre. something like that. only one that oreillys offered. Not sure if there is a difference in a 1959 352 tbird distro and a 1965 352 f-100 distro.


                    I set the timing to 10 degrees inital.

                    Originally posted by pbf777 View Post
                    The flat tappet camshaft is of iron material, USE IRON distributor gears, NOT steel, NOT bronze, NOT composite.

                    How was the "fit" of the the gear to the distributor shaft, interference, or slip fit? And who's the manufacturer of the new' or did you mean rebuilt, distributor?

                    I would advise removal of the oil filter, section the can, removing the filter element, and inspect for particulate of unacceptability.

                    Also in the discussions concerning the "missing" within the functioning of the engine, perhaps associated with a potential timing issue, you never stated what the engines' actual ignition timing values were, as witnessed with a timing light (perhaps I missed this)?

                    Scott.
                    1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                    Cruise-O-Matic
                    Flamingo Pink.
                    Thunderbird Registry #8442
                    Daily driver

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by pbf777 View Post
                      The flat tappet camshaft is of iron material,..
                      ...I would advise removal of the oil filter, section the can, removing the filter element, and inspect for particulate of unacceptability...
                      How do you know Comp Cams are iron? Better call to find out.

                      I think it's a 'given' that the oil and filter must be discarded but why open the filter? The pump is far more important and the rotors will tell the story.

                      I'm concerned that the 1/4" intermediate shaft is probably twisted because the pressure required to shear a roll pin is tremendous.

                      If the roll pin pieces are not all there, they are small enough to pass through the pickup screen. Check for them inside the pan and pump as you clean them. If you still can't locate the pieces, wash out the pickup screen and tube real well. Shake it for loose parts when cleaning. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                        How do you know Comp Cams are iron? -DAVE
                        Because, I have knowledge of such! Or perhaps, because I am....... THE GREAT OZ!

                        Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                        I think it's a 'given' that the oil and filter must be discarded but why open the filter? The pump is far more important and the rotors will tell the story. -DAVE
                        Because, if the oil pump locked up and sheared the roll pin, then there is apparently unintended particulate within the oil, as the oil pumps responsibility is to pump lubricant, they rarely just "lock-up"! And, since the filters' responsibility is to collect particulate with the oil, one might acquire a better understanding of what, if anything, may be failing within the engine, producing said particulate, or of course whether the engine is just experiencing the result of poor assembly technique, perhaps including simple contamination, with the ADDITIONAL observation.

                        Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                        I'm concerned that the 1/4" intermediate shaft is probably twisted because the pressure required to shear a roll pin is tremendous.] - Dave
                        Perhaps, and that is why it also should be inspected for such. But, this was the purpose of my question concerning whether the distributor gear was a "press-fit" or "slip-fit", as without a certain interference value between the distributor shaft & gear, the required torque to shear the roll pin will be greatly diminished.

                        Scott.

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                        • #42
                          So after additional research. I believe the camshaft is indeed Iron. I was mistaked. I need to find a composite or cast iron distro geat at .467" . only been able to find them at one site.

                          http://www.camresearchcorp.com/shop/...ributor-gears/
                          1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                          Cruise-O-Matic
                          Flamingo Pink.
                          Thunderbird Registry #8442
                          Daily driver

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                          • #43
                            Crane Cams #34970-1


                            I am currently out of stock, as they are on back-order to me from Crane at this time, w/ a shipping date of 2 weeks +/- from today.

                            Scott.

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                            • #44
                              Its ok that is a steel gear. That is what comes on oem distros. i need cast iron or composite. I appreciate the effort tho.


                              I am currently out of stock, as they are on back-order to me from Crane at this time, w/ a shipping date of 2 weeks +/- from today.

                              Scott.[/QUOTE]
                              1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                              Cruise-O-Matic
                              Flamingo Pink.
                              Thunderbird Registry #8442
                              Daily driver

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                thinking about this distributor

                                https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performa...830+4294827097

                                thinking about getting this distro. I think the adjust-ability may allow me to hook my vacuum advance back up as well. Since its adjustable. If anyone knows of any potential issues i may run into let me know. im going to wait a day or two to order it. I know i still need to swap the steel gear out for a iron or composite.
                                1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                                Cruise-O-Matic
                                Flamingo Pink.
                                Thunderbird Registry #8442
                                Daily driver

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