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  • #16
    Copper crush gasket - can have a larger raised area near the center of the tube to help allow for imperfections in the mating surfaces.





    The OEM Squarebird exhaust manifold has a flat exhaust mating surface - didn't change to the "donut" type until later.... '61?

    Hopefully the shop used a flat style exhaust connector rather than a donut style or that may be the problem.

    Most likely just not aligned perfectly flat or when(if) they welded the flange to the pipe they were off just a bit and it isn't matching up. Could be why they are saying they may need to make a new pipe for that side.

    Squarebird style manifold (flat)


    Later donut type manifold mating surface.


    Mine will need exhaust soon - been lurking about on this thread seeing what happens - had planned on using a local shop too.
    Last edited by DKheld; May 19th, 2018, 08:38 AM.

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    • #17
      Thanks Eric. Perfectly clear. I didn't even know there was another gasket type since I always installed donut types. I can see why my shop wants to use a copper crushable gasket. They said the mating surface needing some grinding because the angle changed when the exhaust manifold was milled to mate flatter with the heads when that leaked.

      I wonder why the imperfect mating surface gets worse? The extreme heat?

      The other thing I asked for when he designed the pipes was an X-pipe, not an H. I believe I did that on Dave's recommendations in this or an earlier post. It seems no different than the H-pipe.

      Dean

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DKheld View Post
        ...The OEM Squarebird exhaust manifold has a flat exhaust mating surface - didn't change to the "donut" type until later.... '61?..
        Only the passenger's side (the RH side) is flat because the heat riser valve bolts directly to it. The other side of the heat riser is domed to accept an exhaust pipe flange that may be 'off' by a lot.

        The heat riser (or substitute 'blank' bypass) valve is important. Without it, there will be a big gap and a mismatch of fittings.

        If your machine shop milled your exhaust manifold 'flat', that is all you need. The rest of the parts will compensate for small changes. Is your leak between the manifold and head? - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

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        • #19
          Dave......both manifold exhaust connections are flat on the Squarebird ....... !

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          • #20
            My exhaust manifolds must be newer so I have to agree with you, Eric. The Master Parts Manual shows this:
            Attached Files
            My latest project:
            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

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            • #21
              Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
              Only the passenger's side (the RH side) is flat because the heat riser valve bolts directly to it. The other side of the heat riser is domed to accept an exhaust pipe flange that may be 'off' by a lot.

              The heat riser (or substitute 'blank' bypass) valve is important. Without it, there will be a big gap and a mismatch of fittings.

              If your machine shop milled your exhaust manifold 'flat', that is all you need. The rest of the parts will compensate for small changes. Is your leak between the manifold and head? - Dave
              No Dave, the leak is between the manifold and exhaust pipe. That actually made the shop feel better when this leaked the first time, knowing it wasn't the problem between the manifold and head.

              This starts out small to where you think: "I never noticed that this sounds a little like an old 283." Then within about 15 miles it's very loud.

              Is the expansion and contraction causing the gasket to fail because the surfaces aren't flat? That seems to suggest the connection gets loose? Whatever, I'm bugged because I've never had an exhaust with this problem. I had exhaust pipes pull apart from pressure, and exhaust that leaked passed super tightened clamps, all of which were corrected with a second or different clamp.

              Good thing it's a warranty issue, but you start waiting for it to return.

              Dean

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              • #22
                Exhaust leak at the left exhaust manifold to exhaust pipe fixed.

                The problem was a warped exhaust pipe flange that the shop ground flat, and then installed a beefier gasket with a raised ID lip. I'm disappointed that gaskets are so "delicate".

                Okay, so now it doesn't sound like a diesel anymore. It does have a great deep throaty sound from the tail pipes. I hope this fix lasts.

                Dean

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                • #23
                  Driver's side exhaust manifold to heads leaking again. This was milled flat twice, and then still required a gasket. Always something.

                  I know the car didn't come with gaskets, but I noticed the passenger side had one installed years ago. My shop found copper Mr. Gasket exhaust gaskets with the raised embossment around the ports.

                  I hope this works because I wouldn't mind driving the car a few hundred miles without an issue.

                  Dean

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                  • #24
                    I hope this works because I wouldn't mind driving the car a few hundred miles without an issue.
                    Yeah - mine lasted 1000 miles before the standard style gasket developed a leak.



                    Machine shop milled both and I reinstalled with no gaskets. That was about 5-6K miles ago.



                    I was a little worried about the drivers side (lower one in the pic). Didn't seem to have enough surface to seal properly. You can see where he was milling down into the cast numbers. Said he could have gone a little further but was sure it was good enough. Luckily he was right.

                    Hope the copper gasket style works for yours. I remember what a pain in the rump that work was.

                    Eric

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                      Yeah - mine lasted 1000 miles before the standard style gasket developed a leak.
                      Eric
                      I don't know why milling didn't work for mine other than something isn't flat.

                      It would be nice to know if 390 style fit. Maybe it's a better product. Even the flange gasket is the doughnut 3 stud style on a 390 exhaust manifold.

                      The copper, I'm told, is a racing application.

                      Dean

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                      • #26
                        I have these drivers side manifolds from a 390 or 360 out in the garage.





                        If you want to try one or both of them I'll send them for the cost of shipping.

                        In the upper pic the top one is a C5TE... ('65 - think the "T" designates truck) and the lower one is a 3CSE.... ('63)

                        Bought them at a show/flea market about 20 years ago. Guess if I haven't used them by now I probably never will. Think I robbed one or both of the exhaust pipe studs.

                        Looks like they would need to be surfaced.

                        Eric

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                          ...If you want to try one or both of them I'll send them for the cost of shipping..."

                          Eric
                          That is very generous of you Eric. Thanks, I'll try the copper gaskets first and then re-examine what the heck I do next if that fails.


                          You and others from this forum are very kind and helpful.

                          Dean
                          Last edited by simplyconnected; August 18th, 2018, 10:47 AM. Reason: fixed the quote

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                          • #28
                            No problem at all - all the folks on here have been super nice to me over the years (with all my dumb questions etc) just returning the favor.

                            Hope the copper gaskets work though (don't mind sending the manifolds but that way it's less trouble for you)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                              No problem at all - all the folks on here have been super nice to me over the years (with all my dumb questions etc) just returning the favor...
                              Hey, don't let this guy fool you. Eric is a true gentleman, an excellent mechanic with experience on foreign and domestic cars and he is the disc brake pioneer who we used to finally tweak our front disk brake system.

                              Eric used Granada spindles on his Squarebird when there was no Disc kit available for a Squarebird. Based on his retrofit, I used the same Granada spindles on our '55 Ford Customline based on his build. (Huge improvement).

                              We also looked at his brake booster carryover as a possibility, in case we couldn't find a stronger booster. Eric uses a combination proportioning valve as well. I would never suggest a disc/drum retrofit without one.

                              It was Eric's innovations and experience that got us going in the right direction. Thank You for sharing your retrofit, DKheld. - Dave
                              My latest project:
                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

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                              • #30
                                Many thanks Dave - don't deserve all that - but many thanks.

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