Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

    Art ~ ARTBIRD, up Canada way has a '59 352 Squarebird with an aftermarket air cleaner. He is looking for the OEM version for the Squarebird 352 engine. In the course of trying to help him track down one for sale, I found one in Canada, and jopizz found the orange one. But I am told by John ~ jopizz and Carl ~ partsetal, that the black one for sale you will see in this picture is for a Lincoln 430 or 426. It has just a small flattened area underneath because it's distributer is located differently than for the 352. The orange one IS for the 352, (which is what I have on my '59, though mine has been chromed now), and has that big wide flattened area in it to allow clearance for the 352 distributor. I did not know there was a difference until now. You will notice that the inside of the black one has been drilled. Carl told me that was an old trick that some people used to try and get more air to the carb and engine area... I have posted Art's needs in the For Sale / Parts Wanted Forum. Those of you having Squarebirds parts for sale please see if you have a complete 352 air cleaner and top, or at least just the top. See the ad! Thanks. Here are some pix so that all of you will know that there IS a difference between the 352 version and the 430/426 version.
    Attached Files

    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
    '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
    "It's Hip To Be Square"
    Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

  • #2
    I have an original 352 A/Cl off of a 60
    It's very good shape. It does have a hole in the
    side for the breather hose (to the oil cap) because the
    road draft tube was was replaced with the early 60s
    PCV syst. I've removed the port to use on the 62 A/Clnr I'm using. It is actually better with that syst installed.
    But $100 + shpg.
    PM me or email me at work

    johnhb@cacargroup.com
    John Byers
    1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
      Art ~ ARTBIRD, up Canada way has a '59 352 Squarebird with an aftermarket air cleaner. He is looking for the OEM version for the Squarebird 352 engine. In the course of trying to help him track down one for sale, I found one in Canada, and jopizz found the orange one. But I am told by John ~ jopizz and Carl ~ partsetal, that the black one for sale you will see in this picture is for a Lincoln 430 or 426. It has just a small flattened area underneath because it's distributer is located differently than for the 352. The orange one IS for the 352, (which is what I have on my '59, though mine has been chromed now), and has that big wide flattened area in it to allow clearance for the 352 distributor. ...
      My air cleaner is identical to the orange one. Yet I thought the correct 352 has a smaller snorke, and a flat spot on the upper edge body perimeter. I thought the orange one correct for a 430.

      Dean
      Last edited by simplyconnected; January 24th, 2018, 12:44 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

        Hi Dean, I can only tell you what Carl and John told me, and what I see on my own '59 Tbird. Mine has that wide, deep opening in the bottom so that the distributor will clear it. The location of the 430Mel distributor is in a different location and does not require that big indentation. It lies down in the "valley" of the block, instead of sticking straight up like the 352 version. That is my understanding.

        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
        "It's Hip To Be Square"
        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd be happy to hear the orange example is correct. I'm still learning.

          However, if that's the case there are 2 different "correct" air cleaner housings for a 352:

          There's one like the orange one with an enlarged snorkel that would accept the warm-up extension from the exhaust manifold if it were used on a 430, has the bottom front distributor clearance, and a symmetrical upper perimeter.

          The second has a snorkel with a smaller perimeter, same bottom front clearance, and an upper perimeter containing a crease on the edge.

          Dean

          Comment


          • #6
            I suspect the orange air cleaner pictured came from a '58 or '59 Mercury 383. There were several variations on the air cleaner and duct assembly, depending on model year, car model and engine. Long story short is that the T-bird "snorkel" is unique to the 'Bird, and while the '59 parts catalog listed different numbers for 352 and 420 air cleaner assemblies, the air cleaner assembly was listed as the same for both in the 1960 parts catalog and the '49-'59 "Blue Bible" published in 1964.

            For more information on 430 air cleaners, see VTCI's Thunderbird Scoop magazine, Vol 43, # 6 - Nov-Dec 2011 - VTCI Tech Corner, pp. 14-22, 44-45 for the article "1958-60 Thunderbird vs Lincoln/Mercury 430 - Differences Between Carburetor Air Cleaner Air Duct and Valve Assemblies" by Dexter Graffis & Alan H. Tast

            Following are the part numbers that were in the article.

            ’59 FORD CAR PARTS & ACCESSORIES TEXT CATALOG – DEC. 1958
            9600 - CLEANER ASSEMBLY – CARBURETOR AIR, p. 213
            B8S 9600-A Thunderbird 352, 1959
            B9S 9600-A Thunderbird 430, 1959 (only time unique air cleaner is listed for 430 vs. 352)

            9664 – DUCT & VALVE ASSY. – CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER, p. 215
            B8S 9664-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960

            9667 – THERMOSTAT ASSY. – CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER, p. 215
            B8S 9667-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960

            Illustrations p.213

            ’60 FORD CAR PARTS & ACCESSORIES TEXT CATALOG – NOV. 1959
            9600 - CLEANER ASSEMBLY – CARBURETOR AIR, p. 281
            C0SE 9600-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960; 352 - 1958-1960

            9664 – DUCT & VALVE ASSY. – CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER, p. 283
            B8S 9664-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960

            9667 – THERMOSTAT ASSY. – CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER, p. 283
            B8S 9667-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960

            Illustrations p.281

            ’49-‘59 FORD CAR PARTS & ACCESSORIES TEXT CATALOG – 1964
            9600 - CLEANER ASSEMBLY – CARBURETOR AIR, p. 487
            C0SE 9600-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960; 352 - 1958-1960

            9A626 – DUCT & VALVE (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER AIR), p. 488
            B8SZ 9A626-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-60

            9B650 – THERMOSTAT ASSY. – CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER, p. 489
            B8SZ 9B650-A Thunderbird 430 - 1959-1960

            9A676 (prev 9-9648) SHROUD (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER DUCT)
            (not listed ’49-’59 “Blue Bible”)


            ’56-’59 MERCURY MASTER PARTS CATALOG – CHASSIS & BODY – SEP. ‘60
            9609 – BODY (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER), p. 472
            EDG 9609-C Painted “Red” 383 (mod.), 383, 430 1958 Mercury
            B9LE 9609-A Painted “Black” 383, 430 1959-1960 Mercury

            9B625 - DUCT & VALVE (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER AIR) – P. 473
            B8MY 9A626-B – 5751146, P8BM-99642-B 1958 383 (mod.), 383, 430 Mercury
            B9MY 9A626-A Less Shroud – 5752466, PB9M-99642-B 1959 383, 430 Mercury

            9-9648 SHROUD (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER DUCT)
            PB9M 99648-B 5752472 ’59 383-4v, 430 Mercury;

            ’56-’58 LINCOLN CHASSIS PARTS CATALOG - NOV ’57
            GROUP 9.3 - P. 19
            9.3.40 - CLEANER ASSEMBLY – CARBURETOR AIR
            EDJ 9623-B Lincoln 430-2v 1958

            GROUP 9.3 - P. 25
            9.3.85 DUCT & VALVE ASSEMBLY—CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER—AIR
            BAK 9689-A Outer Lincoln 430-2v 1958
            EDJ 99642-C Lincoln 430-2v 1958

            ’60-63 LINCOLN-MERCURY MASTER PARTS CATALOG – DEC 1963
            9609 - BODY (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER), p. 811
            C0ME 9609-J Color “RED” 430-2v 1960 Lincoln
            C0LE 9609-A For export only 430-4v 1960 Lincoln
            C1VE 9609-A Painted “RED” 430-2v 1961-1962 Lincoln
            C3VE 9609-B 430-2v 1963 Lincoln

            9A626 – DUCT & VALVE (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER AIR), p. 811
            B9MY 9A626-A Less Shroud 383-2v, 430-2v 1960 Mercury & Lincoln
            C1VE 9A626-B Less Shroud 430-2v, 4v 1961-1963 Lincoln

            9A676 (prev 9-9648) SHROUD (CARBURETOR AIR CLEANER DUCT), p. 812
            C0LE 9A676-A 430-2v 1960 Lincoln
            PB9L 99648-B For export only 430-4v 1960 Lincoln
            C1VE 9A676-A 430-2v, 430-4v 1961-63 Lincoln

            Illustrations p.738, 739
            Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
            Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
            Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

            Comment


            • #7
              Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

              Wow, Alan! Thank you for that great rundown on the air cleaner and associated parts! What a masterful job that was to put that together for us! Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to do so!

              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
              '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
              "It's Hip To Be Square"
              Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                Except Ray, what he's saying is that the Orange air cleaner assembly is not a 352 '60 correct example. As I said below, mine is like the orange one and I think the correct 352 version is slightly different as I described in my post below. I hope I'm wrong although it's nothing to brood over because nobody seems to know anyway.

                Dean

                Comment


                • #9
                  Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

                  Hi Dean, yup, and I did not know that when I posted about the differences between the '58-'60 Squarebird air cleaners. Thanks to Alan and his vast knowledge of these old Tbirds of ours, now we know. I have his permission to put that information into the TRL with proper attribution, and I will do so shortly, so that we have it for posterity, and not have to go searching for it in the future. Thanks again, Alan!

                  Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                  '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                  "It's Hip To Be Square"
                  Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                  Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

                    The information that Alan Tast provided us with is now in the TRL for posterity. You will find it in the carburetor section. Thank you again, for putting that information together for us, Alan!

                    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                    '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                    "It's Hip To Be Square"
                    Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So Ray, exactly where are these numbers stamped onto the air cleaner assembly ? Thanks for your time.
                      Austin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Difference Between 352 & 430 Air Cleaner

                        Austin, I have no idea where or if they are stamped on these air cleaners. Perhaps Alan can answer that question the next time he is on the Forum. I have never seen any stamped into my air cleaner. But then, I wasn't really looking for any either!

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                        "It's Hip To Be Square"
                        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just checked a different style air cleaner from the early sixties. No numbers.

                          On a brighter note there was a Purolator box with an old 1960 Thunderbird 352 air cleaner element inside.

                          Purolator A40013.

                          Here's a cross reference

                          http://www.airfilter-crossreference....ROLATOR/A40013

                          Cheers
                          Austin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's great to have all this part number information, but as a practical matter I've never seen an air cleaner with a part number. These have been swapped and modified for some 50 years. Of the 40 or so Squarebirds that I have parted, half have a possibly correct air cleaner. 90 % of these have a variation in the design that at first glance look like the ones I've seen on original cars but have a minor variation. How can we add a picture of an air cleaner to the appropriate part number?
                            Carl

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I found out a little late after buying one off eBay that was only for the 352. That tank being in two different directions on the 352 and 430 makes it different. I also have a 59 Edsel Air cleanse that fits better but can’t put either of them on as I have a carb adapter plate which lifts it up just a little too high.
                              Rob
                              1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                              Tbird registry
                              #15794

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X