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  • Starter motor

    So I removed my starter motor to replace it. Came out really easy. I have true dual exhaust so I lowered the passenger side and unbolted the one side of the steering ram and it came out just like that. Kind of a zig zag and it came out so early Iím afraid it will pay me back when I put it back in. My biggest issue now is what is this on my shaft and how to I take it off to put it on my new starter screw driver to release it didnít work.
    Attached Files
    Rob
    1959 Thunderbird J-Code
    Tbird registry
    #15794

  • #2
    You have to press on the large end washer (I use a bench vise) so the hole with the pin is fully exposed. Then knock out the pin and the Bendix drive will come off. Reverse the procedure to install it on the new starter.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

    Comment


    • #3
      I would check that replacement starter for fit before changing the drive. The stud appears to be in position to hit the exhaust manifold. If it does, you can probably return it. If you can't return it, you might try cutting some of the stud off to clear the manifold. Just sayin

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      • #4
        CLICK HERE for my starter motor site. Scroll to picture #42 to see how the Bendix Gear comes off.

        Carl Heller is right, your 430 starter motor has the terminal post moved over to clear your exhaust manifolds. You have a few options...

        If they actually have a 430 starter, by all means, return the one you received. If they don't have one (or if they don't know what the heck you're talking about), I would use my old starter case and simply transfer all the insides of the new one to the old case. It really isn't very difficult because the Bendix Gear is already removed.

        The hardest part is, removing the field winding shoes by loosening the square flat-head screws from the outside. Sometimes they rust but they will come out. Everything bolts together and no soldering is necessary. - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

        Comment


        • #5
          People in the trade ID starters by their 'Lester' number. The Lester number for the 352 starter is 3115, while the Lester number for the 430 is 3117. Since these starters have no identity when they are rebuilt or sold, everyone (except me) assumes they are the popular 352 starter which goes back to 1956 when the voltage changed on Ford cars from 6V to 12V. It fits the Y-block motors and possibly some 6 cyl.
          The significant difference in the two starters is the orientation of the mounting holes on the drive end. By switching only the drive end you should be able to convert your 3115 to a 3117. Try this first before dismantling things as I'm not positive if the two thru bolts will clear the fields. Good luck!

          Comment


          • #6
            Carl and Dave sorry I havenít been back in sooner I wasnít able to work on it over the weekend. I was looking at the wrong thing when you posted that. And I am hitting the exhaust exactly what you said might happen

            I left a message with Cody at the Birds Nest about it.

            Converting it are you talking about it removing the housing where the battery bolt is at and swapping bodies out? Went back in smoothly. Had it all tightened down and was putting the exhaust pipe up and I couldnít bolt it up. So I had to take the bolts out of he starter after just loosening them up wouldnít work.
            Rob
            1959 Thunderbird J-Code
            Tbird registry
            #15794

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Djweaz View Post
              Converting it are you talking about it removing the housing where the battery bolt is at and swapping bodies out?
              I think he's talking about the mounting flange that bolts to the bell housing. If you unscrew the two through bolts and pull off the mounting flange from the new one and replace it with the one from your old starter it will turn it enough where the stud doesn't hit the exhaust. I've never tried it but in theory it might work.

              John
              John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

              Thunderbird Registry #36223
              jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks John I will try that tomorrow.
                Rob
                1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                Tbird registry
                #15794

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rob, all the internals are identical. The only change is, where the terminal stud comes out. This is a problem only for Bulldozer engines because (as you found out) it hits the exhaust manifold.

                  So, if you notice by looking at the pictures I provided, there are 'pins' and 'divots' that align the end caps to the center section (I'll call that the body). The through bolts go between field windings so that space is dedicated.

                  The change isn't drastic but enough to be a pain.
                  Consider the positons of the terminal studs in your picture:


                  Pay particular attention to the faint tapped holes in the front end cap, where the mounting bolts screw in with relation to the terminal stud.

                  I would mark positions of the fields and the case, take the internals out of both, then clean up and use the old body with the best parts. It looks harder than it really is.

                  The soldered brush connection comes out with the field coils, so everything bolts together. Take pictures and use mine along the way. This job shouldn't take more than 1/2-hour.

                  Do not paint until the starter is together. - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I went out yesterday and was going to rebuild my starter I looked at your starter page, very in-depth. I was going to do it but I decided I would have the 3117 sent to me as the old starter was probably the original starter. I thought to myself what was a couple of days? I didnít have anything to lose so it is going back to the birds nest. I have a shipping tag coming with the other one so when it gets hereI just have to put the 3115 in the box and put the shipping tag and put it in the mail. Just seems like the new starter will look much better than a rebuilt starter
                    Rob
                    1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                    Tbird registry
                    #15794

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, they have pretty paint on most rebuilt starter motors. Some vendors do not install new brushes, bearings, etc., because they only need the starter to make it beyond the warranty period. You said your starter motor was original, so you also know they should last a very long time.

                      That's why I urged you to:
                      Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                      ... take the internals out of both, then clean up and use the old body with the best parts. It looks harder than it really is....
                      If the new armature's commutator looks better, use it. I offered pictures of the whole setup but hey, do what you like. I realize you bought a new starter motor but just to make sure, loosen the inspection band and look inside. Only one bolt holds it on. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry I haven’t been in for a bit as I haven’t felt well enough to come out here and play with the bird. The only reason I was going to just have them replace the 3115 to the 3117 version which they thought they had in stock, and it would go right in and it would be done. I waited a week and he sent me a message that they couldn’t locate them anyplace. So I decided to go to your page and go through the pictures. I currently have both of them apart. What I can’t get out is the brass wires on the inside. The original has a square hole to unscrew and the new one has big Phillips screw but I can’t find anything for he square whole as it is in between both wrench sizes and the screws in the new one won’t budge. I’d like to use them when rebuilding this sobas of now I am stuck
                        Last edited by Djweaz; November 22nd, 2017, 10:38 PM.
                        Rob
                        1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                        Tbird registry
                        #15794

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Djweaz View Post
                          ...The original has a square hole to unscrew and the new one has big Phillips screw but I can’t find anything for he square whole as it is in between both wrench sizes and the screws in the new one won’t budge. I’d like to use them when rebuilding this sobas of now I am stuck
                          I figured that would happen. Some vendors have no idea there is a difference between starter motors because there aren't many Bulldozer engines out there.

                          Got a grinder? Either a bench grinder or an angle grinder works. Pick up a cheap 1/2" extension and grind two sides down. Yeah, you can grind all four sides but there's no real need. This isn't high tech. These screws are not hardened bolts. The holes they go into aren't hardened either.

                          Some #3 Phillips screwdrivers have provisions to turn with a wrench just below the handle. That's what I use, with the starter body securely held in my Shop Mate 'horse'. I would use a hammer to shock the screw but I would NOT apply heat. PB Blaster helps as well.

                          You have everything you need to make a good starter motor. Use your ingenuity and get her done. - Dave
                          My latest project:
                          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                          --Lee Iacocca

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Dave thatís a good idea. I never would have thought of bringing edges down so they fit. On the screws on the new one I thought about an impact screwdriver. I used to own one I think I will check harbor freight for another one. I might have a set of those screwdrivers I just picked up a set at sears about 6 months back. They have a strange tip on them. Hopefully I will get some work done tomorrow. Happy thanksgiving to you and your family
                            Rob
                            1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                            Tbird registry
                            #15794

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              While putting my starter back together I noticed something. I lined the starters up with the positive bolt in the same direction towards me. I switched just the top plate that clocks it. That top plate is the only thing different, so I will be able to use everything new except I will use the original plate. I have been having a bear of a time getting the brushes in the right place over the shade. If you put the spring on it pushes it right through. If you leave the spring off you canít get in there to put the spring on so I have been trying to leave the spring partly on on the edge. Itís still rough to do. Iíve been trying different ways to try to work with the shaft. Anybody have a less difficult way to do the brushes? I do it for a little bit at a time and stop when I get aggravated so I donít be break the wire leads.
                              Rob
                              1959 Thunderbird J-Code
                              Tbird registry
                              #15794

                              Comment

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