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  • #16
    Originally posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
    Hello everyone.

    I will try to be brief.
    I have a 1959 Thunderbird with the original 4v FE 352.

    I have taken the engine apart and was going to rebuild.
    Currently looking like it will be about $2200 to do start to finish. Not building a monster mostly stock.

    I have found a 1965 f-100 truck with the 2V 352 running for $600.

    I know it has alot less horsepower but can i swap my intake manifold and carb on it as is? If so its a great price help.

    I still have to do some wiring and the brakes on the car but would like to have a running engine sooner than later.

    Also i dont know if the motor mounts are the same location.

    Any light yall could shed would be amazingly helpful.

    Hey there ! How ya making out ?

    I have to commend your resolve to stick with the original 352 powerplant.

    The truck 352 oil pan will more than likely be a differing design than the 59 Bird, including the oil pump pickup tube.

    Comparing the water pumps too if your truck 352 is alternator equipped.

    Both motors are from the age of non-detergent motor oil so I'd like to be there when you pop the intakes. Ha !
    Austin

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Joe Johnston View Post
      If it is not too late, Hit one of the bolts from the flex plate with some spray paint so it goes together the same way it came apart. 180 off is not a problem but 90 off is a problem as the torque converter drain plugs hit the flex plate. Might as well just put it back the way it was and have no problems.
      Well thats a good point that i didnt think about.
      1959 Thunderbird 397ci
      Cruise-O-Matic
      Flamingo Pink.
      Thunderbird Registry #8442
      Daily driver

      Comment


      • #18
        So ya i bought the engine.... And i really just need to start listening to yall. Got the engine home an did a dry compression test on it and got about 40 to 50 psi on all but one cylinder and that one was about 10 psi. Then i opened the valve covers and it blows my mind how every inch of a motor can be caked in sludge. Im just gonna sell it i guess.

        Should i keep the alternator that is on it.?
        I need to look up info on the swap or if its worth doing. I assume my generator is working. Is there a test i can do on it maybe.

        Anyways thanks for everyones help and advise. I did manage to get the engine pulled with no issues thanks to yall.
        Originally posted by Woobie View Post
        Hey there ! How ya making out ?

        I have to commend your resolve to stick with the original 352 powerplant.

        The truck 352 oil pan will more than likely be a differing design than the 59 Bird, including the oil pump pickup tube.

        Comparing the water pumps too if your truck 352 is alternator equipped.

        Both motors are from the age of non-detergent motor oil so I'd like to be there when you pop the intakes. Ha !
        1959 Thunderbird 397ci
        Cruise-O-Matic
        Flamingo Pink.
        Thunderbird Registry #8442
        Daily driver

        Comment


        • #19
          I did start cleaning the engine bay. And it looks alot better.

          I guess a question to ask is how much more, if at all, is the car worth having the original motor as opposed to a swap.
          1959 Thunderbird 397ci
          Cruise-O-Matic
          Flamingo Pink.
          Thunderbird Registry #8442
          Daily driver

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
            I look at it this way... Ford used many more 390 engines in just about everything (including Thunderbirds) than they did 352 engines. From the outside, they are identical.

            Either engine from fifty or so years ago will need an overhaul.
            I tried to steer you in the right direction. There are a ton of 352 engines out there that are hard to get rid of because of the reasons I mentioned.

            I never spend more than $200 for a 390 because I always assume they need an overhaul. We have members who bought overhauled engines, only to find out later on that the build wasn't what they thought. I don't leave that to chance.

            Good luck getting $600 out of an old tired engine. Take my advice and find a 390 to build. If you can't afford it right now, wait until you can. Don't get rid of anything until your build is complete.

            Ford engines do not have VIN numbers so an 'upgrade' is hard to detect without getting into casting numbers. - Dave
            My latest project:
            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

            Comment


            • #21
              Got lucky on my engine (for a change) - no paperwork but the guy seemed honest enough - probably not the norm these days but I took a chance. Before I installed it I used a bore scope and could see the new .020 over pistons, correct hashing on the cyl walls, valve train looked new under the valve covers etc.

              So far it has worked out - hate to hear yours was not so great.

              As far as value......

              Comes up a lot on my MG forum. The early MG's had the engine number stamped on the VIN plate so if the car is to be a show car it makes a BIG difference in value to have the original engine. Probably as much as 25% of the value of the car - HOWEVER - the plates on the engine can be re-produced so someone "could" create a numbers matching car. I've seen MG's go for 2x what any other car of the same condition would fetch but the seller had a documented paper trail on all the components.

              My Tbird for example. Bought new by my Dad and Mom. I do have a lot of the original documentation from when the car was bought new and never have seen the engine number recorded on any of it. Don't think the FE engines even have a serial number??? just a date code. My engine has been changed. You can't tell it's not the OEM 352 without looking at the date code numbers on the block. In a show judges might look for that sort of thing so once again - if the car was to be shown it would matter.

              Even though the engine numbers are not recorded (that I know of - even on my build sheet) it still would make a slight difference IMHO. If someone bought your car and wanted to make a show car out of it they would have to factor in finding a correct engine for the car, rebuilding and installing. Maybe 10-25% of the value?

              Heck - even on my OEM engine the intake number is a '61 production number. I'm 99.9% sure it was never changed but it would be hard to prove. Judges would probably count off points for the '61 intake on a '60 car (until it was proven that late production '60 Tbirds were fitted with early '61 parts - which is what I believe happened).

              On the other hand if a fellow wanted it to drive. A rebuilt FE might be a plus to that buyer (original type engine not necessarily the original one)

              An then for the street rod buyer - he might love to see a modern fuel injected Lincoln Navigator engine in there and would not pay as much for the OEM style FE engine in it.

              All a big gamble really and depends on the buyer. I'd say if you have what you think is the OEM engine and can keep it to sell with the car that's what I would do. If the buyer doesn't care about it then you can just sell it.

              JMHO

              Eric

              Comment


              • #22
                That had crossed my mind. Just to reassemble the origional on the engine stand.

                Hopefully parting out the extra engine i bought isnt what i have to do.

                Either way. What is the order i should buy my parts in.

                Like i believe i need to buy over sized pistons and the shop will have to machine to the piston.

                How does eveyone feel about the "engine rebuild kits"?

                Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                Got lucky on my engine (for a change) - no paperwork but the guy seemed honest enough - probably not the norm these days but I took a chance. Before I installed it I used a bore scope and could see the new .020 over pistons, correct hashing on the cyl walls, valve train looked new under the valve covers etc.

                So far it has worked out - hate to hear yours was not so great.

                As far as value......

                Comes up a lot on my MG forum. The early MG's had the engine number stamped on the VIN plate so if the car is to be a show car it makes a BIG difference in value to have the original engine. Probably as much as 25% of the value of the car - HOWEVER - the plates on the engine can be re-produced so someone "could" create a numbers matching car. I've seen MG's go for 2x what any other car of the same condition would fetch but the seller had a documented paper trail on all the components.

                My Tbird for example. Bought new by my Dad and Mom. I do have a lot of the original documentation from when the car was bought new and never have seen the engine number recorded on any of it. Don't think the FE engines even have a serial number??? just a date code. My engine has been changed. You can't tell it's not the OEM 352 without looking at the date code numbers on the block. In a show judges might look for that sort of thing so once again - if the car was to be shown it would matter.

                Since the engine numbers are not recorded (that I know of - even on my build sheet) it would make a slight difference IMHO. If someone bought your car and wanted to make a show car out of it they would have to factor in finding a correct engine for the car, rebuilding and installing. Maybe 10-25% of the value?

                Heck - even on my OEM engine the intake number is a '61 production number. I'm 99.9% sure it was never changed but it would be hard to prove. Judges would probably count off points for the '61 intake on a '60 car (until it was proven that late production '60 Tbirds were fitted with early '61 parts - which is what I believe happened).

                On the other hand if a fellow wanted it to drive. A rebuilt FE might be a plus to that buyer (original type engine not necessarily the original one)

                An then for the street rod buyer - he might love to see a modern fuel injected Lincoln Navigator engine in there and would not pay as much for the OEM style FE engine in it.

                All a big gamble really and depends on the buyer. I'd say if you have what you think is the OEM engine and can keep it to sell with the car that's what I would do. If the buyer doesn't care about it then you can just sell it.

                JMHO

                Eric
                1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                Cruise-O-Matic
                Flamingo Pink.
                Thunderbird Registry #8442
                Daily driver

                Comment


                • #23
                  Don't buy any engine parts until a machine shop inspects your block and determines what bore size they can safely go with. You can buy the full FE gasket kit as you will need that regardless of what engine you rebuild. I also recommend putting a new front seal and front pump bushing and o-ring in your transmission. As for originality Ford didn't put VIN numbers on engine blocks, only date codes. I wouldn't worry about it affecting the value. You can take the alternator to just about any auto store and they will test it for free. It's most likely a low amp alternator so it doesn't have much value.

                  John
                  John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                  Thunderbird Registry #36223
                  jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Just my opinion: REBUILD THE ORIGINAL ENGINE, correct for the car.

                    Find a competent shop to provide fair and honest rebuilding services, communicate, and "pay-the-price". Face the fact, that with old cars come repairs, and in the long-run, this will provide far less headache, and prove far less expensive, then most other processes trying to get it done cheaply.

                    For the experience, and/or to reduce costs, one may chose to be more "involved" and "participate" to varying degrees, and this is K.O.; but, with less knowledge, or interest in turning the wrench ones' self, comes more of the assistance as outlined above.

                    The cost difference, of rebuilding the 352 vs. a 390 is not significantly greater (if at all, each example proves unique); but with the wrong engine present, the devaluation of your vehicle will be.

                    Generally, installing an engine other than that which the vehicle was originally equipped is due to the original not being of rebuildable condition, not available, or did not/will not provide suitable performance (defined with many perspectives) for intended purpose. None of these scenarios would seem to enhance the potential collectability (value) of your vehicle.

                    Scott.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I found a place in Houston that will do the entire long block rebuild for $1700. That doesnt seen too bad.

                      I just need to sell the extra motor that i bought.
                      Anyone interested in it lol.
                      1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                      Cruise-O-Matic
                      Flamingo Pink.
                      Thunderbird Registry #8442
                      Daily driver

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        If you plan on upgrading to an alternator you might want to think about rebuilding the new block you bought. That one has the hole drilled for the alternator mounting bolt. Your old block does not. It's much easier mounting an alternator using the original Ford brackets than fabricating new ones.

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
                          That had crossed my mind. Just to reassemble the origional on the engine stand.

                          Hopefully parting out the extra engine i bought isnt what i have to do.

                          Either way. What is the order i should buy my parts in.

                          Like i believe i need to buy over sized pistons and the shop will have to machine to the piston.

                          How does eveyone feel about the "engine rebuild kits"?

                          Then you have determined the 59 needs more than just ring job, valve lap and stem seals.

                          Too bad about the truck 352. That sludge is a bear to clean up, huh ? And then there is the oil pickup screen.

                          If you are looking to have a restored Tbird or just a beater would make a difference to me for resale. In other words if I buy an original that rolls off the transport with a 390 there will be trouble.
                          Austin

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            i got another 352 out of a 1965 f100 and its in the car and running great now. Thanks yall
                            1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                            Cruise-O-Matic
                            Flamingo Pink.
                            Thunderbird Registry #8442
                            Daily driver

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
                              i got another 352 out of a 1965 f100 and its in the car and running great now. Thanks yall
                              Good, if you're just looking for a driver to cruise around in you're good to go. However if you're going to take the thing on any distance and want it to be reliable rebuild the stock block but upgrade the heads to 390 or even 428, they have bigger valves and make sure the seats are hardened for unleaded gas. Get an Edelbrock Performer manifold since it ways about 60lbs less, and a good 600+CFM carb with electric choke.

                              I'm sure aluminum heads are the way to go but they're 2K so I'm not spending it.
                              Scott
                              South Delta, BC, Canada
                              1960 White T-Bird, PS, PB that's it
                              Red Leather Interior!
                              www.squarebirds.org/users/sidewalkman
                              Thunderbird Registry #61266
                              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...ibrary/trl.htm

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Update.

                                Its been 4 months or so now and i drive the bird about 2 days a week. Still running strong.
                                1959 Thunderbird 397ci
                                Cruise-O-Matic
                                Flamingo Pink.
                                Thunderbird Registry #8442
                                Daily driver

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