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  • water pump pulley

    I have run into a bit of a problem installing a classic auto air system. I have the original water pump pulley and the A/C kit pulley does not fit it. I have the B8A 8509 -A pulley as per the following OFS I borrowed from one of Rays (yellowrose) posts. The black and white picture I got from classic auto air and shows the pulley they want me to have. It looks like it might come from a 390. Can anyone confirm this and supply a part number or a pulley?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by ekstrandt; July 20th, 2016, 09:37 PM. Reason: part number correction

  • #2
    The water pump on your squarebird has a long shaft. That's why the pulley is so deep. The black and white picture shows a short shaft water pump that is used on 390's. Can you show us a picture of exactly what doesn't fit so we can make some suggestions.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • #3
      Here are some pics to illustrate the problem. Single sheave is the original, double is from classic. The double is supposed to go over the "original" and then you bolt them back on. Mine is to "fat" to allow that.
      Attached Files

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      • #4
        Why would the double one need to go over the original. You should only need two grooves. One for the original belt and one for the compressor. If they sent you the correct pulley you wouldn't need the original. Call and tell them to send you the correct pulley for a squarebird with the long shaft water pump. If they tell you one kit fits all then they don't have a clue what they're doing.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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        • #5
          X2 with John. I think if you replace the original water pump pulley with the one supplied by CAA it would work. The inner sheave on the new water pump pulley would be used to go from the crank to the water pump to the generator as original (but probably with a shorter belt) and the outside sheave on the new water pump pulley would have a belt to the compressor (using just a single belt although the compressor probably has a double sheave).

          Unfortunately this configuration will drive the generator, water pump and A/C compressor off the rear sheave of the crank pulley which is the damper sheave. The power steering is driven off the outer sheave bolted directly to the crank. I'd be surprised if the 50 year old rubber in the damper lasts very long before being destroyed with all that load (something they don't tell you).

          The picture on the CAA web site specific to the 58-60 Tbird is using a factory A/C pulley COAE-8509-A. That would have 2 belts from the water pump to the crank and then to the generator and a single belt to their A/C compressor. With the factory A/C pulley you have to add a sheave to the crank for the power steering, change the single generator pulley to a dual and change the power steering pulley to line up with the new sheave on the crank. Plus use a new shorter fan spacer.
          Actually from the angle on the second belt it looks like they have the second sheave going to the power steering - and maybe to the outer sheave on the crank - sort of hard to see from their pic. That would keep you from having to put a dual pulley on the generator and maybe if it works keep everything from being driven off the damper sheave on the crankshaft?????


          I'm adding A/C to my non A/C car. Made all the changes above using the factory water pump pulley. The A/C compressor will be driven from the water pump pulley by a single belt but the water pump pulley now has 2 belts to the crank pulley and generator one being to a bolt on sheave on the crank and not just to the damper sheave. Don't know the number on the crank pulley but the new PS pulley is COAE-3A733-A.

          A/C compressor not yet installed




          edit
          Found another pic of the CAA set-up from a different angle - still hard to tell the belt config but that's definitely the factory A/C pulley. I believe the 61-63 pulleys will work as well but haven't tried one. COAE-8509-B



          Eric
          Last edited by DKheld; July 21st, 2016, 09:51 AM.

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          • #6
            The CAA pulley is 1 sheave width(~0.5") shallower than the original W/P pulley. That in my opinion is to much offset from crank to alternator to water pump. The rear sheave of the CAA pulley (closest to the engine) lines up perfectly with the A/C compressor. So if I just used the CAA pulley only, every belt minus P/S would be 1 sheave width out of alignment. I do not believe that is acceptable. Correct me if I'm wrong.

            Eric thanks for the heads up on the damper being the rear sheave definitely something I need to consider/ research. Good catch on the pulley from the CAA website pictures. I will be calling them shortly.

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            • #7
              Don't know if this would help you or not, but I found this on Ebay. I'm always looking to see whats out there.
              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-1959-19...1XK~gM&vxp=mtr
              It's not cheap, but if it makes your life a bit easier, WTH?
              Nyles

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              • #8
                Need a pulley for my 60 bird that has a 390 with aftermarket A/C from Classic air. The color picture in the middle of this post looks like the pulley I need. Can you tell me any more info on where I can find one and what you would expect to pay? Thanks so much!!!!!!!

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                • #9
                  Could you get around this problem by simply putting a water pump with a short shaft? Then just use a fan spacer to get the fan to the correct position?

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                  • #10
                    continued pulley issue

                    Getting desperate. The pulley installed when adding Classic air has 3 grooves. 2 for the A/C compressor and one for all else. The groove toward the rear (closest to engine) is larger than the 2 for the A/C. Pat Wilson's Thunderbird parts said it was from a 61-63 car since the motor is a 390. Got the part in and size of the pulleys are reversed and doesn't even look like the one on the car. Noted in the post that classic air suggested a 2 groove pulley, one belt for A/C but mine has 2????? Please help with a suggestion. Many thanks. Can't drive the car as pulley has large chunk from the front broken off.

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                    • #11
                      pulley continued

                      spoke to classic auto air, they need to know what year the motor is. Told me to find the serial number on the block. Where would that number be and with the number, how to tell what year the motor was made? Thanks

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carolina Tee Bird View Post
                        spoke to classic auto air, they need to know what year the motor is. Told me to find the serial number on the block. Where would that number be and with the number, how to tell what year the motor was made? Thanks
                        Ford didn't put serial numbers on their motors. In front of the carburetor on the intake is a part number. It could be C1AE or something similar. Unless they reused the original intake that should give you some idea of the year.

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • #13
                          Can't drive the car as pulley has large chunk from the front broken off.
                          Do you have the missing piece???

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                          • #14
                            engine part #

                            John:
                            The numbers are OD11 and there is a second set of numbers as well COAE9425B . Any indication as to year? Thanks

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                            • #15
                              Missing piece is gone.

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