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  • #61
    Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
    The presence of bubbles in your coolant is NOT good. That usually comes from a bad head gasket.

    You don't describe the color of your smoke. Some of it may be steam if coolant is sucked in and bubbles are blown passed the head gasket.

    You need a cap with a proper rubber seal. There is a possibility that if you use a good radiator cap that your smoke and bubble situation may become worse. It could be that someone removed the seal.

    You didn't report the condition of your heat riser valve. - Dave
    The smoke looks and smells like an exhaust smoke from both places. It doesn't seem to me like steam as yesterday (with the engine only idling) I could not get to higher temp than 150. But to be sure, can you advise the differences of smoke from oil, gasoline, other?

    What does it mean exactly that 'the smoke and bubble situation may become worse'? What could happen?

    To see how the engine is acting I will get me a rubber gasket to use it temporarily with the present expansion cap. Othervise the tank does not seal and the coolant is spitting out rihgt from the start of the engine.

    How can I diagnose the bad head gasket? If the cooling is temporarily sealed and the head gasket is bad, the engine should overheat, no?

    As I can not cruise with the car now, I have to simulate the load somehow. What is the RPM level that I should keep and for how long to see if the engine is overheating?

    As for the heat riser valve, I will test it but I need to know more here. The shop manual says that the valve is closed when the engine is at normal operating temp and running at idle speed. Normal operating temp is arounrd 200? If so, I have to make sure the engine firstly gets to that temp.
    Last edited by Rock&Roll Firebird; May 12th, 2013, 04:26 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Rock&Roll Firebird View Post

      This one is 13 psi. Is it OK? What is a practical difference between 13 and 14 psi cap?
      That is exactly what you want.

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      • #63
        A suspected bad head gasket(s) can be diagnosed with a special tool which consists of a rubber bulb with a special fluid inside that when placed over the radiator cap opening and detects exhaust fumes in the coolant that fluid will change color. If the radiator cap (correct pressure rating and pressure checked) keeps opening discharging coolant, suspect either serious system overheating and/or a bad head gasket(s).

        The flow that you are seeing may be caused by a non-closing (lazy) thermostat and/or just coolant being circulated through the WP bypass hose.

        Before diagnosing a cooling system, all parts must be in good condition (belts, hoses, thermostat, core plugs, etc.). The first step will be a system pressure check and going to (if needed) a radiator flow test.

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        • #64
          Water pump exchange

          To answer your question about the difference between a 13psi and 14psi cap... 13 lb cap ( 250F boiling point) and a 14 lb cap has a higher boiling point rating. The 13psi cap is what is recommended for our Squarebirds, as I recall.

          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
          '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
          "It's Hip To Be Square"
          Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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          • #65
            Every now and then I am humbled by the things I take for granted, and there is no doubt in my mind that this gift is very intentionally provided and maintained:

            The air we breathe is of the perfect mix and concentrations.
            The atmospheric pressure (29 psi) is so perfect I don't feel it.
            Temps are very livable all around the world.
            Earth spins at 1,000 MPH at the surface, which provides perfect gravity.
            The balance of nature provides correct rain, day/night, tides, seasons, and an ecosystem that rejuvenates our destructive ways of living. I Thank God for all of this, and the time we enjoy all of it. With that, Alexander found a way to bring us together, on Squarebirds. Truly amazing...

            Raising your cooling pressure raises the boiling point about 3 degrees Fahrenheit per pound. If water boils at 212F (at sea level), adding a 16 psi cap will raise the new boiling point to about (16 x 3 + 212 =) 251F.

            There is another benefit... New cars use 19 psi caps (plastic expansion bottles, aluminum radiators, etc.), but they also have aluminum heads to prevent pre-ignition and detonation. Engines burn fuel more efficiently when hot. That is why they get 30 mpg. High pressure (45 psi) fuel injection mist is also a big part of this elevated economy as it unleashes more HP from the ideal 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture.

            Squarebird engines are all-cast iron, which doesn't do heat very well. (Like a cast iron skillet, they are slow to heat and slow to cool.) High temps cause hot spots in the combustion chambers which ignites fuel too soon (pre-ignition). So we make the air/fuel mixture too rich because more evaporating gasoline cools, and it needs spark to ignite.

            That's why our engines have 180 thermostats, not 195. By today's standards our engines are very unrefined, but they were the basis by which modern engines evolved.

            My point is, keep your cooling pressures high but also keep your temperatures down. Enjoy these old classics for what they were designed to do, as best you can with modern fuels and oils. - Dave
            My latest project:
            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

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            • #66
              And the 80 percent nitrogen 20 percent oxygen atmosphere provides the proper oxygen partial pressure at all elevations from sea level to 15000 feet. One of the hard lessons learned in the Apollo 1 fire in 1967. amazing! We've also learned so much in materials in the last 40 years due to the space program. The earth is an incredible design
              sigpic

              CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

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              • #67
                As for the thermostats, can you say what is the practical difference between these (as all seem to be high-flow):

                Milodon, MotoRad and Stant

                The Milodon is 3x more expensive, that's why I ask.
                Last edited by Rock&Roll Firebird; May 14th, 2013, 06:18 AM.

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                • #68
                  Ford used Stant thermostats as original equipment. The Milodon has a much wider opening for engines that really need a lot of coolant flow.

                  The idea is not just the amount of flow but also where the coolant is flowing. The water pump creates flow but it is directed by your head gaskets, providing all passages are clear.

                  A small amount of coolant conducts an awful lot of heat, just like the radiator systems in houses. Remember, water takes the path of least resistance. If a 'zone' is shut off (from debris) or bypassed (from rusted through head gasket holes), no flow so no heat transfer.

                  Go completely around that engine with your IR heat sensing gun. Find out where heat is retained. - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                    Ford used Stant thermostats as original equipment. The Milodon has a much wider opening for engines that really need a lot of coolant flow.

                    The idea is not just the amount of flow but also where the coolant is flowing. The water pump creates flow but it is directed by your head gaskets, providing all passages are clear.

                    A small amount of coolant conducts an awful lot of heat, just like the radiator systems in houses. Remember, water takes the path of least resistance. If a 'zone' is shut off (from debris) or bypassed (from rusted through head gasket holes), no flow so no heat transfer.

                    Go completely around that engine with your IR heat sensing gun. Find out where heat is retained. - Dave
                    Not sure if I unterstood correctly. $15 is not a big deal, do you advise to get the Milodon one for the '59 352? I'd say - if it helps make cooling more effective, i'd go that way.

                    Any tips where to point the IR gun to? I have no idea .
                    Last edited by Rock&Roll Firebird; May 14th, 2013, 03:00 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                      ...Go completely around that engine with your IR heat sensing gun. Find out where heat is retained...
                      Originally posted by Rock&Roll Firebird View Post
                      ...Any tips where to point the IR gun to? I have no idea .
                      Jiri, we seem to be going around in circles. Apparently you are not reading my answers but you copy them anyway. Maybe you should hire a local mechanic who is experienced with classic car engines and take his advice.
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                        Jiri, we seem to be going around in circles. Apparently you are not reading my answers but you copy them anyway. Maybe you should hire a local mechanic who is experienced with classic car engines and take his advice.
                        I can assure you Dave, I read every answer very carefully. I was referring to your 'Going completely around the engine with a IR gun' as I tought you could maybe specify it more precisely (intake, heads, block parts, atc.) as I am sure there will be parts on the engine connected f.e. to the exhaust system (intake) and those will be much hotter than others, I guess...

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                        • #72
                          Do you have a Shop Manual for the car?

                          The cooling system will be explained in detail. It will show water jackets and coolant flow.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                            Do you have a Shop Manual for the car?

                            The cooling system will be explained in detail. It will show water jackets and coolant flow.
                            I do, looked on the water flow already. Do I get it right that I need to IR meter mainly on the block and neither on the int. manifold nor on the heads?

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                            • #74
                              Coolant flows from the bottom of the radiator (drawn by WP) into the block through the cylinder cores (skirt jackets) to the cyl heads and connected in the intake manifold @ the thermostat housing. It is then regulated flow into the radiator.

                              Take readings all along this path(s) to determine if any hot spots/blockages.

                              CORRECTION (To Be More Concise)-

                              The coolant flows from the WP to and around the cylinder barrels and then is directed to the rear of the cylinder heads where it then flows toward the front of the engine. The coolant head flow is then combined at the front coolant channel in the intake manifold and then is subject to thermostat control.

                              The MEL coolant flow is just the opposite for those with a 430.
                              Last edited by KULTULZ; May 15th, 2013, 07:43 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
                                Coolant flows from the bottom of the radiator (drawn by WP) into the block through the cylinder cores (skirt jackets) to the cyl heads and connected in the intake manifold @ the thermostat housing. It is then regulated flow into the radiator.

                                Take readings all along this path(s) to determine if any hot spots/blockages.
                                Ok, that's clear.

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