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1959- these hoses behind the dash (pic)

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  • 1959- these hoses behind the dash (pic)

    This morning I took the car to the DMV to register/tag/title the car. Not only did the Sheriff who inspected the S/N for the title like the car, a deputy getting into his cop SUV asked him if it should be test driven first, with a big grin on his face. And an older lady said it was 'pretty'. Great start to the day! So, I take it home and started working...

    I pulled out the radio and the 90% duct taped glove box so as to see what may be up with the wipers not working. I found one of these wire-wrapped lines (blue arrows) between the defrost vents thinking it was an old antennae wire, until I found another one behind the glove box. There is also this small vacuum line (red arrow) coming from somewhere behind the dash, I think half-tangled with the driver-side wiper assembly/cables.


    Looking at diagrams of the wiper control knob it looks like that behind the knob the line does a 90 towards the passenger side. Mine actually faces to the left into the mess of wires from the gauges and then back into the firewall.

    Would someone care to ID what and where these go/do? Thanks
    1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

  • #2
    Get yourself a vacuum hand pump.

    I found it invaluable when I pulled the heater core from our 65 TBird and started tracing down where all the vacuum lines go and did what under the dash.

    RustyNCA

    Comment


    • #3
      It's been a while since I've been back there. The blue arrows are definitely pointing to an RF wire - and with the duct tape on the defroster vents - someone has been back there.

      So maybe ......

      someone just cut stuff out of the way to replace the defroster vents? Possibly an FM converter was added somewhere along the lines and when removed that wire was just cut and left?

      My antenna wire runs from the pass firewall in and down to the radio not over to the drivers side.

      The vac wipers should have a few vac lines. One big one coming in on the pass side to the vac wiper motor and a small one to the wiper switch and back to the motor - the small one controls the speed of the wipers. There also could be a "T" on over to the drivers side panel where the washer switch could be located. It was all vacuum controlled too. It may be a separate line for the washers but pretty sure it was a "T"

      You can see the antenna wire and vac lines going into the firewall here just above the A/C box and the washer line going in the smaller circle above that. If you have the washers they used the same vac style line from the washer bag and pump to the jets. There will be a small hole and grommet on each side of the firewall



      Maybe you can see the drivers side washer line going into the firewall in this pic - counting over from the hood latch on the right to the left there are 2 wire holders then the round grommet with the washer line going in.




      Here's a pic of mine with the silver duct in the center being the A/C duct. You can see the vac wiper speed control line running along the firewall and I'm pretty sure that is the radio antenna line coming down the right side to the radio.



      Hope that helps some,
      Eric

      Comment


      • #4
        It helps plenty, Eric. The car has a new antenna and it runs through the firewall like yours, except there is no grommet. Would the RF cables have a wire inside like a coax, instead of being hollow? Copper-braided wires surely hint to radio.

        My wiper switch cable is possibly routed wrong and binding.

        And many thanks to Yellowbird for the call. I've got front end problems to fix than having to worry about wipers.
        1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep - that braided line should have a center conductor although the center conductor can be pulled out so maybe that's what happened on yours.

          The shop manual has a decent pic of the wiper system on page 12-36 and shows how the cable should be routed over the idler pulleys and such.

          Yeah - front end problems are no fun........"don't leave home without one"........

          Good luck on your repairs,

          Eric

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by V-John View Post
            This morning I took the car to the DMV to register/tag/title the car. Not only did the Sheriff who inspected the S/N for the title like the car, a deputy getting into his cop SUV asked him if it should be test driven first, with a big grin on his face. And an older lady said it was 'pretty'. Great start to the day! So, I take it home and started working...

            I pulled out the radio and the 90% duct taped glove box so as to see what may be up with the wipers not working. I found one of these wire-wrapped lines (blue arrows) between the defrost vents thinking it was an old antennae wire, until I found another one behind the glove box. There is also this small vacuum line (red arrow) coming from somewhere behind the dash, I think half-tangled with the driver-side wiper assembly/cables.


            Looking at diagrams of the wiper control knob it looks like that behind the knob the line does a 90 towards the passenger side. Mine actually faces to the left into the mess of wires from the gauges and then back into the firewall.

            Would someone care to ID what and where these go/do? Thanks
            Just had my wiper motor out today and had to disassemble it to clean it. It was totally frozen. Seems to work pretty good on test. See how it does when I reinstall it. As for the wiper control knob, it uses a cable to manually move the wiper motor valve to turn it off and on. When you turn the knob to the right, it extends the cable to move the slide valve on the wiper motor. The vacuum tubing could well be from the w/s washer switch. The washer switch directs vacuum to a diaphragm which moves the same wiper slide valve to actuate wipers and also has a second vacuum line that actuated the manual w/s washer pump under the hood. The shielded cable that is cut is more than likely the antenna lead, as that is the only shielded cable I can think of. Good luck. - Nyles

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm waiting for my shop manual to arrive that I recently bought before I do any front end work. Until then, I'm doing whatever I can elsewhere.

              I pulled out the wiper motor to clean and check it. It was goo-covered 100%. It does have a diaphragm with a vacuum hose leading to the driver's door.


              The hose with the red arrow, which also goes to the door, is that supposed to go out through the firewall grommet? (for those that actually have a grommet, unlike mine). And I was curious if the pulley shaft is supposed to be sort of off center to the shaft in the motor:


              I bought a new vacuum hose that goes from the engine to the wiper motor. It had a splice at the firewall where a 'T' would've been, and it was dried out and cracked. I was going to check the wiper motor operation in the engine bay before I run the hose into the car and bolt it all back in place. I used channel locks to turn the pulleys and it seems that there is good suction. The cable was VERY tight to move but I got it working smoothly without any use of lubes.

              Yellowbird and I went over my car via phone. I do have washer squirters, some squirter hoses that hadn't broke off yet from being brittle, my washer fluid colostomy bag, and that's it. I kept looking for where my washer pump is located, EVERYWHERE, but mine is totally missing:



              As for the 2 other hoses, yeah, they were actually both ends of one short antennae wire. You can see a screw missing on the heater box, as were elsewhere on it when I went checking. Someone's been in it and closed the wire between the 2 halves. It's now gone and all screws been replaced.

              I'm starting work on the fuel sending unit to check for ground and such. Once I start it to check the gauge I'll do the wiper test, too.

              Thanks for all the help and input, fellas.
              1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                It's been a while since I've been back there. The blue arrows are definitely pointing to an RF wire - and with the duct tape on the defroster vents - someone has been back there.

                So maybe ......

                someone just cut stuff out of the way to replace the defroster vents? Possibly an FM converter was added somewhere along the lines and when removed that wire was just cut and left?

                My antenna wire runs from the pass firewall in and down to the radio not over to the drivers side.

                The vac wipers should have a few vac lines. One big one coming in on the pass side to the vac wiper motor and a small one to the wiper switch and back to the motor - the small one controls the speed of the wipers. There also could be a "T" on over to the drivers side panel where the washer switch could be located. It was all vacuum controlled too. It may be a separate line for the washers but pretty sure it was a "T"

                You can see the antenna wire and vac lines going into the firewall here just above the A/C box and the washer line going in the smaller circle above that. If you have the washers they used the same vac style line from the washer bag and pump to the jets. There will be a small hole and grommet on each side of the firewall



                Maybe you can see the drivers side washer line going into the firewall in this pic - counting over from the hood latch on the right to the left there are 2 wire holders then the round grommet with the washer line going in.




                Here's a pic of mine with the silver duct in the center being the A/C duct. You can see the vac wiper speed control line running along the firewall and I'm pretty sure that is the radio antenna line coming down the right side to the radio.



                Hope that helps some,
                Eric
                The small diaphram, next to the cable control, is where a small vacuum line runs back to the w/s washer switch. The washer switch has 3 ports. Larger is for vac. source and the 2 small ones go to the washer pump assy. and the wiper motor diaphram. The washer pumps on these cars were really unique. They had an assembly that mounted on the engine and when you activated the washer, a diaphram would pull the assembly against one of the drive belts and that would run the pump. Very few if any are using this as they are very hard to find and maintain. NOTE: There is one listed on ebay, complete assy. for a Ford Fairlane. Looks to be the same
                As for the wiper motor, if you needed channel locks to turn the wiper motor drive, it is probably in need of cleaning. I just disassembled mine, cleaned it and lubed it really well with silicone grease. Works like a champ and I can turn it by hand. I might send Roy some pictures to post. What I did for the funny little screws, is found a piece of metal tubing and just bent it a little to oval the end. The screws came out really easy and also went back in fine. Here is a good article I found on the net: http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Techn...um%20Wiper.pdf

                Comment


                • #9
                  Eric:
                  Our cars look very similar under the hood. I'm curious. I see so many of the birds with the brake vacuum booster in the engine compartment. I still have the original booster under the dash, with a single port master cylinder. Is the brake assembly on your car retrofit and if so, what year, make and model of booster are you guys using? Looks like it's also a dual acting master cylinder. Think this would be a good safety item.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tbird1044 View Post
                    As for the wiper motor, if you needed channel locks to turn the wiper motor drive, it is probably in need of cleaning. I just disassembled mine, cleaned it and lubed it really well with silicone grease. Works like a champ and I can turn it by hand. I might send Roy some pictures to post. What I did for the funny little screws, is found a piece of metal tubing and just bent it a little to oval the end. The screws came out really easy and also went back in fine. Here is a good article I found on the net: http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Techn...um%20Wiper.pdf
                    Thanks for the link. I thought those screws were a funky rivet or something. I opened mine up and here's what I have:

                    I'll just use silicone or make another gasket for it.
                    1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The pack of gasket material I bought to use for the fuel sending unit came in handy again. After spending some time cleaning, I used the thin cardboard gasket and copied the old one. I'm going to use some lithium grease for the shaft ends before I close it up. I gave it a test try and there is easy movement with suction and blowing.
                      1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1959- these hoses behind the dash (pic)

                        Nyles sent me some pix of the breakdown of his vacuum wiper motor that he restored. In the article he posted regarding lubricating the wiper motor it says not to use brake fluid, as others have used, because of the danger it can pose to your paint job. It was suggested to use a light machine oil instead. This information is now part of the Technical Resource Library under Windshield Wiper & Washer. Here are the pix.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by YellowRose; March 30th, 2013, 01:59 AM.

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                        "It's Hip To Be Square"
                        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm assuming you use the machine oil on the 'bowl' where the flapper would be swinging back and forth, and a light grease for each of the rollers?
                          1959 Thunderbird - Thunderbird Registry #46052

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1959- these hoses behind the dash (pic)

                            I don't know the answer to that question, but I bet someone on here does. Or check out the Technical Resource Library in the Wiper-Washer section.

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                            "It's Hip To Be Square"
                            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                            Comment

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