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  • Couple brake questions.

    Hello All! So close to driving my baby, I can't wait! right now I am having some issues with the brakes. I cannot seem to bleed the rear brakes. The car is a 59 with the 352 and power (under hood) brakes. I tried to bleed the back brakes as I've done many a time with no luck. I replaced the wheel cylinder thinking that may have been the problem, but still no fluid movement. Am I missing something? I admit to never having bleed brakes on a car this old, but I am unaware of any adjustments I would need to make. I have not replaced the second rear wheel cylinder yet, all brake lines and hoses look very good. Front brakes bleed fine. Could it be the master cylinder? I will say that the rebuild seemed less than optimal, but mainly I just need to get her going up and down the street so I can get her in the garage to do more work. If the master cylinder does turn out to be the culprit I will be switching to disks up front, but that is a tight expense for me right now. A second question, how hard is it to add the self adjustment to the brakes? Think that covers it all, thanks all for your wisdom and help. -Robert

  • #2
    Have you checked the brake junction block on the axle. It could be clogged or it may be the rubber hose that goes into the junction block. I've had them get clogged from sitting. As far as the self adjusters they are pretty easy to install. The kits are different for right and left so you have to make sure you put them on the correct side. The only problem I ran into was the adjuster wheel didn't line up with the access slot on the back. I think it was only on one side though. I don't remember what side it was.
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • #3
      And the rubber may look pretty good on the outside of the hose, so you can't tell by looking what the insides are doing
      sigpic

      CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

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      • #4
        I'm with Jopizz and Astrowing. I never believed a brake hose could de-laminate from the inside until it happened to me. The hose hole is real tiny and it doesn't take much to block it.

        Another cause could be air. Your rear brake system is the longest branch. You didn't say whether you have a rebuilt or new M/C but if it is dry, it needs to be 'Bench Bled' OR, you're going to pump about 20 times to get all the air out.

        With that long distance, the pedal won't move much air. To start, crack a short branch, holding your finger over the end until fluid appears. Then, you can crack the line at the rear hose inlet or at the tee on your rear axle to troubleshoot. Once brake fluid appears, it should bleed easily.

        Here are the part numbers for your rear brakes:

        The Carlson boxes are RH & LH self adjusters, the NAPA box contains the rear hose, and the Wagner boxes contain new rear cylinders.

        Hope this helps. - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

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        • #5
          I used one of those Mity-Vac devices to bleed the brakes on my car. I put all new brake lines, dual MC, and a line lock on my car last winter; so I had a LOT of air to pull out.
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

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          • #6
            Thanks all for the responses! I have ordered the hose and the self adjusters, we will see if this works, next up I will test the long line to the back and if that doesn't work then my guess is the master cylinder is shot after all and I will be doing disk brakes. -Robert

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            • #7
              Self Adjusters

              The self adjusters...
              Carlson H2545 and H2544... are these for the rear only?
              Are they a complete system for adding self adjusters to where they were not before?

              Thanks

              Cannot find them on the NAPA site.
              I was surprise to see my fronts did not have them, but all the holes and slots are there.
              1959 Thunderbird HT

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              • #8
                Amazon has them for $8.84 ea.
                Jim
                Jimz Greenie with a White Hat and Brown Guts (ZE-XG)
                sigpic

                CLICK HERE for Jimz web site

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                • #9
                  Those kits fit front and rear. H2544 is left front and rear and H2545 is right front and rear. The Wagner part numbers are H2512 left and H2513 right. They won't be listed for a squarebird. Look for 1961 Thunderbird instead. It's the same.
                  John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                  Thunderbird Registry #36223
                  jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                  • #10
                    Ted, Jim and John are both on the case... Since Squarebirds never came with self-adjusters, they won't be listed for those years. However... Bendix (and other companies) made these brakes and they were used on many cars.

                    Your front and rear brakes are the same, but many of our guys are going to power disk brakes so they only need the rear (LH & RH).

                    Carlson is a very good aftermarket brand and of course so is Wagner, Bendix, Raybestos, etc. These kits fit many cars across all 'big three' brands. Really if you think about it, how many different configurations of 11" brakes did they need?

                    BTW... What Ford Product Engineer sized the brakes used on Squarebirds? Probably a Salesman from Bendix, and the Ford Engineer went along with it. - Dave
                    My latest project:
                    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                    --Lee Iacocca

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                    • #11
                      Also, when you have your drums off, measure them to ensure they aren't out of spec. Less than 11.030 is desired with standard shoes. You won't be happy with braking performance at all with drums that have been turned too many times.
                      sigpic

                      CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

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                      • #12
                        Dave, I couldn't help but notice that 1 wheel cylinder was made in Italy and all the rest of the items in your picture were made in China...... is that typical nowadays or are there any American brands (made in America). I for one would gladly pay more for good old USA.

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                        • #13
                          Frank, it's very sad; Detroit is a ghost town. All our little job shops have moved to China. All our automotive machine shops are nearly all gone, too. There is no money to be made in the auto industry unless you work for peanuts at an agency.

                          GM, Ford, and all the rest are over in China making record numbers of vehicles. The big boys are in business to make money, and they figure if Americans won't buy American, then let's make the stuff Americans do buy.

                          I learn a lot by going through bone yards in different areas of the country. California is teeming with old Japanese car and motorcycle parts. Rarely do they have classic American car parts. The east coast is nearly identical. Military parking lots, hospital parking lots, university parking lots, all filled with foreign brands.

                          Auto parts stores only carry 'fast moving' parts, or they are quickly dropped from shelves and become 'mail order only'. So, you know what parts move the fastest. I recently went to OReilley's looking for a 2004 Ford torque converter. They couldn't even tell me a price because they don't have. We used to get parts right off the shelf. Those days are gone. Now, if one brand is available 'over night' we feel lucky to get it. I'm seeing more defective stock, 'new in the box'. They know I'm not going to China to sue. The situation is so bad for our children and grandchildren, they may need to move abroad to find work. - Dave
                          My latest project:
                          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                          --Lee Iacocca

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                          • #14
                            Itīs the same story here.
                            sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, I did as Dakota Boy advised and bought a cheap Mity-Vac to use for bleeding (and for vacuum checking)_ works really nice.
                              I had no trouble bleeding my original old equipment the old fashion way too though. I'll bet your lines are clogged.

                              -Dave J

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