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Rebuilt '60 carb free to good home

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  • Rebuilt '60 carb free to good home

    Hey guys,

    I just put an Edelbrock 1406 on my "60, replacing the Autolite 4100 (I think) which has less than 100 miles on a professional rebuild at Carbco here in St.Louis. Carb worked fine when it warmed up. Didn't want to start up when cold (Edelbrock doesn't like to wake up in the morning either).

    Anyway, you pay shipping, I'll pop it in the mail.

    Any thoughts/advice on continuing cold start problems--just bought Auto Analyzer electrical diagnosis meter, start going through system tomorrow--are appreciated. Car is switched over to Petronix ignition, but still has old coil. Hooked up Edlelbrock electric choke to power window relay.

    Phil
    314-726-5462 if you want more info on Autolite.

  • #2
    This is nothing new, but a few things to check for cold starts:
    Cars in the mountains can never get enough air. The rest of us get too much air in cold weather because oxygen is packed much tighter. Without choking the air, our cars start hard in Michigan.

    Timing plays a big role, and needs to be retarded a lot for cold starting. Correctly gapped, new spark plugs work the best, and so do correctly gapped points. (I know you have a Pertronix with no points.) If you look at your distributor cap and spark plug wires in the dark, and see any 'stray' sparks between the wires or to ground, it's time to replace ignition parts. Make sure your vacuum advance diaphragm is functioning properly, or your timing may be permanently advanced too much.

    We went through 'air' and 'heat', now let's cover 'fuel'... The carb needs a good supply of gasoline, and your accelerator pump must aggressively squirt fuel into your carb when you pump the pedal. I mention this because some carbs leak fuel into the intake as soon as the engine stops (characterized by hard starting with a warm engine). No fuel in the bowl means the engine cannot start until the fuel pump starts delivering gas and the bowl fills.

    With the air cleaner off and the temperature cold, observe: When you push the accelerator pedal two things should happen. Your choke cam and butterfly should close and gas should squirt. The owner's manual used to suggest three pumps, then turn the key to 'start'. The choke cam holds the pedal open a little for higher rpm's while the butterfly freely operates off the bi-metal heat spring.

    Too bad the old systems didn't temperature-compensate spark timing like new systems do. When is the last time you heard someone 'flooded' their engine in a modern car? We use the same gas, spark plugs, air, etc. Now, more control is taken away from the operator, and precision tuned by a computer.

    Old engines that refuse to start may have leaky, bent, or burned valves (or broken rings). To check, I use an air hose plugged into a dummy spark plug and set at 60-100-psi. When the valves are closed and the air is on, there should be no noise coming out of the oil filler, carb or muffler. The slightest leak will cause a very loud hiss. Worn rings may have gaps of .100" which may produce a slight noise. New-ish rings have gaps of ~.020" and are quiet.

    Bottom line is, keep your engine maintained and be sure your carburetor's functions are all working properly. - Dave
    My latest project:
    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

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    • #3
      Hi Phil,

      You may want to hang on to that for a while. That is a good design and if you start up another project and need a quad that is a good one. Depending on the venturi size it also could be fairly valuable especially if it is an original. The venturi size should be stamped on it. It could be a 1.12 (Probably) or a 1.19 which is really valuable.

      I was considering the 1.08 as an upgrade to the Holley 4000 on my 56.

      Here is what Pony says about it:
      http://www.ponycarburetors.com/defau...aqdetail&id=22


      If the cold start problem is that after a while it runs better it may be the Heat Riser flapper that is stuck and not directing warm air to the intake.

      If you are going to do some electrical TS there is a good article in the Dec issue of Mustang Monthly on checking the charging system. It is for an alternator but the tests still apply.

      I'll say it before Dave does but be sure to check all the ground connections while it is cold. Temperature can affect the Cold Cranking Amps that you are drawing. The article covers that also.
      http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/...tem/index.html

      HTH

      Sheesh while I was typing and drinking coffee Dave showed up.
      Last edited by Jimz Bird; December 13th, 2011, 03:50 AM. Reason: Dave still came in 1st
      Jim
      Jimz Greenie with a White Hat and Brown Guts (ZE-XG)
      sigpic

      CLICK HERE for Jimz web site

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      • #4
        Originally posted by shortysbreath View Post
        Hey guys,

        I just put an Edelbrock 1406 on my "60, replacing the Autolite 4100
        What size? 500? 600? 750?
        sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

        Comment


        • #5
          I thought the Pertronix system required a new higher voltage coil. In any case, coils are hard to diagnose as the resistance values don't really tell you much other than whether it is shorted or not and we can't measure the secondary voltage directly other than watching the gap jump. Since you have an old one, I'd take a look at it also.
          sigpic

          CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

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          • #6
            petronix coil

            I wasn't sure if I should change the coil or not. Can you ditch the resistor wire since the points are history?

            Comment


            • #7
              Dave/Jim--Thanks for all the tips. Replaced wires and cap last week. Cleaned ground to chassis (definitely dirty), cleaned positive to starter relay (ditto). Seemed to crank better. If it quits raining, I'll check vacuum advance, start testing the electricals with this fancy pants new meter. I think carb is getting gas, but I'll check again as per your advice. The butterfly is definitely closing all the way. I'm going to put off the bad valve/worn ring analysis until last. And Jim, thanks for tips on old Autolite. I just found a member who wants it so I'm sending it off as per the offer. Someone should use it. And I have enough car parts (Desoto as well as T-Bird) to keep an archeologist busy for a month.

              Appreciate all the help you guys. I woke up dreaming about this car this morning.

              Comment


              • #8
                The autolite is a 600 I think. The edlebrock is the 1406--lean mixture--and also a 600. Bolted right on. Linkage needed adjusting. Runs great. Except for the little cold problem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shortysbreath View Post
                  I wasn't sure if I should change the coil or not. Can you ditch the resistor wire since the points are history?
                  Your welcome.

                  It is not necessarily the presence of points or not that requires the use of the resistance wire or ballast resistor.

                  There seems to be a lot of confusion about when to use one and what type of coil to use. I have read that it depends on if it is Ignitor I or II but it appears that the deciding factor is the amount of Amps in the system.

                  This is a long copy and paste from the Pertronix help section but it may help. (Especially if you have a fancy shmancy meter.) I'm not sure of the rational of the 8 Amps (what determins that and if that changes depending on the system) so I will let Dave clear that up for us.

                  "What type of coil can I use with the Ignitor™? How do I check my coils resistance? (12V negative ground only)

                  To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.
                  Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.
                  The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle.
                  Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.
                  Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.
                  Four and six cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.
                  Example

                  Voltage 12
                  Resistance 1.5
                  12 / 1.5 = 8
                  Total amperage 8 "
                  Last edited by Jimz Bird; December 13th, 2011, 02:50 PM.
                  Jim
                  Jimz Greenie with a White Hat and Brown Guts (ZE-XG)
                  sigpic

                  CLICK HERE for Jimz web site

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    coil testing

                    My dad was an electrician. I wish he was around still.

                    Thanks for the info. You guys are a font.

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                    • #11
                      Most message boards are merely cheap "entertainment".

                      This one... is a gold mine.
                      http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

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