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ī58 Rear suspension "issues"

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Astrowing View Post
    They are pressed just like front-end parts. Thanks. Do you have dimensions on the upper and lower arm pivot bushings? How about the control arm? Metric is fine. I can convert.
    Upper & Lower arm? The control arm is the upper arm.
    I have not changed the other bushings. Only the ones in the control arm.

    It is the same bushings for the forward position and the upper rear on the trailing arms. I can measure them, but not until the weekend, as I am not planning to take the parts down until I can continue with the rear part, the subject of the thread. And I have been promiced these bushings/isolators will be ready on Friday.
    Can you do me a favour and mesure the sleeve until Friday? So I donīt cut mine by mistake. There should be on your car as well Thatīs the one I have tryed to get from Post 1.....
    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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    • #47
      Hmmm after reading this whole post 3 or 4 times I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in (I have the fire extinguisher so I'm ready to be shot down in flames )

      From what I take from the discussion and the pics.
      1 the suspension as a whole operates correctly
      2 the point in question is the bolt and isolator that attaches to the lower spring saddle and the lower control arm
      3 the crush length of the sleeve through the isolator

      From what I can see the only real factor that this bolt/isolator controls is axle roll on acceleration like a primitive tramp rod.

      If the axle is in it's normal operating position and extended to within the normal range of travel the distance between these two surface should be able to be measured and I would assume (insert ***/u/me) that the length would be a median of these measurements.
      As far as I can see unless you are developing huge horsepower and drag racing I can't see a problem with running without this isolator.
      When built these were supposed to be performance cars of the day were they not?

      That's my bit hope i have helped or confused the issue

      Richard

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      • #48
        How long is the sleeve the bolt goes through???? Now I wana know

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 1960_430_AU View Post
          If the axle is in it's normal operating position and extended to within the normal range of travel the distance between these two surface should be able to be measured and I would assume (insert ***/u/me) that the length would be a median of these measurements.
          Correct, but that mean I first need to get the whole car together ( engine, tranny is not in at the moment ) and have it taken up on one of these lifts where the car stands on the tires ( as it is impossible to see and measure this having the car sits on the ground as it is way to low to get in there ), and from there bring some guys to push the rear down and up as much as possible, as the springs would be on as well...
          But yes, I am alreay planning to do it when the car is finished.
          I just want to be as prepared as possible before I do that.

          Originally posted by tbirds8 View Post
          How long is the sleeve the bolt goes through???? Now I wana know
          It just would be such a help to know the leingth of the sleeve, as it is so much easier to play with everything at the moment, as the whole rear axle is light at the moment, and the springs is off making it very easy to check whatīs happend when the axle goes up & down.
          sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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          • #50
            Anders,

            Looked thru my Service Letters from that time period for information that could help you. Nothing specific to the problem you've encountered other then torque values you may not have. I've attached them for future reference as they can offer help to someone else latter on.
            Attached Files
            Ken
            1959 J Convertible
            1960 J Hardtop

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            • #51
              Thankīs Ken. But I coldnīt opend them.
              Will check at home tonight instead.

              Edit: At home now, and the only thing I can say is: iMac RULES!

              Article seems very, very interesting.
              Last edited by Anders; March 10th, 2011, 12:39 PM.
              sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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              • #52
                Ken,
                That was Gold information!
                I was thinking of velding a tube inside the supportframe back to the nut ( that is nearly impossible to reach ) in order to supoort the bolt in for the upper control arm fromt bolt, bet decided to wait with it. But this what they did back in the days, and the access to the bolt, they found through the sheet metal behind the rear sieat. I will for sure try this if what I am doing at the moment donīt work. I already seems to have the big square support piece already anyway.
                Never the less, A Great find by you, and I am realy happy you found it! Youīr the man!

                I will win this war!
                Last edited by Anders; March 11th, 2011, 05:12 AM.
                sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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                • #53
                  ī58 Rear suspension "issues"

                  Thanks to Ken ~ GTE427 for providing those .pdf files. I have taken the liberty of putting them in the TRL. You will find them right under Suspension for future use!

                  Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                  '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                  "It's Hip To Be Square"
                  Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                  Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                  http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                  • #54
                    Just got my new "Isolators" back and thought I end the day by check how it now works. Then I did a new discovery, but finally, a good one. The length of the "sleeve" is of no interest! It does not matter if they are 2 1/2" or even 3" It only line up the two isolators and have nothing to do with travel or anything alse. Now I can finally leave them behind me!
                    My new big bolt is slightly longer than the old one and that give me just little more travel when the car is going up, but the best I found out is that when the suspension compress and the upper thin isolator got squeezed, thatīs the critical point! It is when this happend, the forces start to travel through the upper control arm into the front bolt.
                    Now, my new isolators are softer than original. By purpuse! The 50-year old one have dryed out and become harder during the years. We mesure them in the region of 85-90 shore, and the rubber company where I made the new one guessed that they should have been around 60 shore when new.
                    As those still created the problem as Kens files showed, and was not replaced by softer or thinner, in order to actualy avoid the problem ( Funny, the Service notice only said how to strengthen it where it breaks, but donīt show how to avoid the breaking... ), I vent for softer 45 shore, as these should help to increase the travel as they squeeze easier and therefore donīt lock the movement as rapid as harder shore would do. If that wonīt help, my next step will be to cut a thinner upper isolator, in order to increase the travel, as these thinner isolators are the one that decide where the suspension stops, or travel of the body, down direction ) . I got some extra material, so I can do this later.
                    I feel I now understand the suspension, and know what to adjust as soon as have the car back on wheels. I just hope itīs not only theoretical, but works in reality as well
                    Last edited by Anders; March 11th, 2011, 06:07 PM.
                    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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                    • #55
                      It's good to hear you got that figured out. good luck

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                      • #56
                        Too bad we all cant ask the original Ford engineer how it was supposed to work....

                        Just an example of how knowledge and technology can "vanish" over time if it isnt written down somewhere...

                        What's in YOUR head now that could be lost forever when you're gone?

                        "Deep thoughts" for a Saturday morning.
                        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Dakota Boy View Post
                          What's in YOUR head now that could be lost forever when you're gone?
                          2 things:
                          1: I ainīt plan to go nowhere in a long time.
                          2. Someone might look this thread up in the future. Whatīs on the internet, stays on internet.
                          sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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                          • #58
                            ī58 Rear suspension "issues"

                            I put those .pdf files and this Thread in the Technical Resource Library so tht future '58 Tbird owners could make good use of it. They won't have to re-invent the wheel to find out about that '58 suspension system!

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                            "It's Hip To Be Square"
                            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Anders View Post
                              Thankīs Ken.
                              Glad to assist. Looks like you're well on our way to resolving this.

                              Now we know who to contact about the 58 rear suspension and where to get those 'Made In Sweden' suspension components.
                              Ken
                              1959 J Convertible
                              1960 J Hardtop

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                              • #60
                                Here's a close-up picture of the left side of mine. I think you can figure out what all the dimensions are by looking at this picture.
                                Attached Files
                                sigpic

                                CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

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