Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Is it possible to get a subscription? Is the Magazine still avalible?
    How? Where? How much?
    Last edited by Anders; January 7th, 2011, 06:04 PM.
    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

    Comment


    • #47
      A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

      Jon, according to the ITC History web page, their newsletter is called "The Script" not Thunderbird Illustrated. Unless sometime since then, they have changed the name of their publication. Mark tried to respond to this post, but for some reason, lost his post. I will tell you, basically, what he said. I do not think this publication is still available if I understood Mark correctly.

      http://www.intl-tbirdclub.com/ITCHistory.html

      Hopefully, Mark will re-create his post and send me the information that he was trying to post. Here is what he did say to me though.

      "I just wrote out a nice reply with details about this publication to the person asking about subscriptions. I filled in some details and tried to send it but this program shot back to me that I did not have access to this person and apparently lost my reply back to him?

      Not sure what I am doing wrong here, but that frustrates me. This was not a publication of the Int T-Bird Club, not even close. This is 50 pages of glossies and stories in each copy, 4 times a year."

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
      "It's Hip To Be Square"
      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
        Jon, according to the ITC History web page, their newsletter is called "The Script" not Thunderbird Illustrated. Unless sometime since then, they have changed the name of their publication. Mark tried to respond to this post, but for some reason, lost his post. I will tell you, basically, what he said. I do not think this publication is still available if I understood Mark correctly.

        Not sure what I am doing wrong here, but that frustrates me. This was not a publication of the Int T-Bird Club, not even close. This is 50 pages of glossies and stories in each copy, 4 times a year."
        Oh no, am I getting "that" old at 38? I guess it has been a while since I left the ITC. I'm still a VTCI member though.

        Opps. Sorry fellow Birders. I goofed....

        -Jon in TX.
        sigpic
        The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

        VTCI Member#6287.

        Comment


        • #49
          A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

          Hi Jon,

          Maybe you can chock that up to being frazzled from having a new baby in the house! Mark has told me that about 75% of the articles in these magazines are about Babybirds. I tried to find out some history of this magazine, but did not find much. I think it is long been defunct, but I am not sure about that.

          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
          '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
          "It's Hip To Be Square"
          Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

          Comment


          • #50
            "Thunderbird Illustrated" had an 8-issue run in the mid-'70s, then stopped production. VTCI was able to obtain full sets of TI and sold them through its Country Store in the '90s-mid '00s.

            As for the "Battlebird" quite a bit has been written about it, especially after it was restored and unveiled at the '94 Classic Thunderbird Club Int'l. show in Dearborn. The person who did the restoration is CTCI's Authenticity Director, Bill Baumgartner from California. The car's passed through a few owners before and since then. There are several 'clones' of it floating around - some better than others.
            Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
            Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
            Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

            Comment


            • #51
              Not much new under the sun!

              Good morning Alan,

              I dropped out of the T-bird loop from about 1980 till just recently and was not aware that these were available at anytime as reprints. In fact I did not remember that I had them either! But I found them again when I went to get the T-bird bible, your Thunderbird book. It seems no matter where you look, most of what is out there is known already in some manner or another by someone. And I am coming to the conclusion that what ever the history of mine is, it is not of historical significance. Which is a relief in a way because I was not looking forward to overhauling the 430 just to keep it the way I got it. I would rather work on a 352 any day. And I have already changed some of the details from when we got it back in 67. So, I feel my conscience is clear in continuing to change it without concern for originality. I think I will keep it red though since I have no idea when it was changed from black to gold(the color in between black and red) and I still have some hint of a kid in me yet. Red is a real eye catching color for that car.

              So, I think I have tried to find out something about this car and too much water has passed under the bridge to ever really know much abou it. Many people have helped me speculate recently about it's history, but that is all it is. It is a neat car and was the car of my dreams long before I had a driver's license. Maybe it's history for my purposes should start there.

              Thank you for contributing so much to the T-Bird background with your book. It is invaluable and everyone who is part of this forum needs to have a copy. Maybe 2, once for reference and one to keep pristine.

              Take care Alan

              mark mundorff

              Originally posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA View Post
              "Thunderbird Illustrated" had an 8-issue run in the mid-'70s, then stopped production. VTCI was able to obtain full sets of TI and sold them through its Country Store in the '90s-mid '00s.

              As for the "Battlebird" quite a bit has been written about it, especially after it was restored and unveiled at the '94 Classic Thunderbird Club Int'l. show in Dearborn. The person who did the restoration is CTCI's Authenticity Director, Bill Baumgartner from California. The car's passed through a few owners before and since then. There are several 'clones' of it floating around - some better than others.

              Comment


              • #52
                Waste Gates...

                I got the below from Mark and also a picture of his shock set up in the rear on his '60 Golde Top 430MEL. Here is what he had to say about his rear shock set up.

                "This is a picture taken of a Polaroid picture taken of the 60SR that I put double shocks under like the 59. The only difference is the one set in the standard location are the air shocks. Worked great."

                "The vents on the side of mine are meant to be functional. Regardless of who put them there. The drivers side has the interior sheet metal cut and shaped to direct engine compartment air to the vent on that side. The passengers side depends on the open area at the end of the fender well to allow air out and toward the vent on that side, but nearly as effectively as the drivers side.

                The reverse scoop is on the passengers side and has the trough that I know from watching antifreeze it sucks air out and channels air and antifreeze to the dog leg of the windshield and if the passenger window is open, you get antifreeze blowing by and engine compartment air with a vengence. The scoop does not become a reverse ram air intake from the windshield since it is to the side and the trough allows air to follow out to the side of the windshield. So the small scoop also acts as a waste gate to compensate for the less effective pull on the passengers side vent All aimed at get air out from under the hood.

                Tremulis makes numerous comments about side waste gates on cars and the benefits and sketches in Alan's book and in this copy of TI show vents/waste gates on the sides of sketches for future Thunderbirds.

                I will always wonder if there was a connection in some way.....
                Attached Files

                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                "It's Hip To Be Square"
                Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment


                • #53
                  Just found my issue of Thunderbird Illustrasted Summer 1960, everyone should enjoy the pictures of the SS Thunderbird once Ray is able to scan them and post for all to see. Pay attention to the various wheelcovers in the photos, would like to know more of that history.
                  Ken
                  1959 J Convertible
                  1960 J Hardtop

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I found this on Youtube. It´s about Pontiac, but also show some from the 1959 Daytona 500, with the Squarebirds. In motion! In color!
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtcwk...embedded#at=96
                    Last edited by YellowRose; February 21st, 2011, 06:02 PM. Reason: Fixed the link...
                    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

                      It has been awhile since I have heard anything from Mark Mundorff and his Tbirds. He just sent me some more information about his '59 Tbird that looks like it was set up for racing. He also sent me some more pix of it to share with ya'll. First, here is what he had to say. After looking at the pix, if you can shed any light on anything you see in the pix, he would love to know it.

                      "Hi Ray,
                      It has been a while since I emailed you about anything about the T-bird. I finally decided to get it out of storage and see what it would take to at least get it started after 22 yrs. Well, a little fresh gas and turned it over and away it went!!

                      I have cracked exhaust manifolds on the 430. it needs a new clutch plate, but other than that, it will live!! We put it up on the rack and the guy who is actually working on it is an old Ford guy. He looked at the area of where the 3 speed overdrive is setting in the body mounts etc and said he could not see where there was any indication of it actually having an automatic there instead of the 3 speed overdrive. Of course, done professionally, there very well may not be any!!

                      Also, expanding on what I had remembered about the suspension modifications, the brackets that held the traction bars between the body and axle are literally the same bracket as the leaf spring shackle mounts are. Someone got original brackets from Ford and welded them in. Also, something I had forgotten about altogether and I can see again now. At one time, in the back axle area, there was a lateral track rod that ran between the rear axle at the leaf spring area on the passengers side up to the frame over the axle on the drivers side. Like they would have used on the 58 t-birds with coil springs. Of course neither the track rod or traction bars are still there, (just?) the brackets for them.

                      And the 2nd set of shocks on front is forward of the tires. I have pictures now of this stuff as well as newer pictures of the car taken in the last couple weeks. And better pics of the door post patent plate too.

                      Just thought you would be interested.

                      Sooooooooo……….all the suspension additions were not for looks, they were meant to keep it down and steady. Ok…a stock car. But then what was the body work for, including the very pleasing line on the roof on both sides. More like show car. Or is this by chance a car set up by Ford to try out different suspension mods and body details. That makes sense if this were a prototype or concept car…..then it might very well fit. Any thoughts?

                      Take care

                      Mark Mundorff
                      mmundorff@mapes.com"

                      Then, along with the pix Mark sent, he added these comments.

                      "Good morning Ray,

                      At the time we bought the car, it was only 6 yrs old and things like that were not well understood out here in Nebraska farm country. All I knew was that it was a beautiful car and what I had wanted, a T-bird.

                      What is a little hard to realize is that there seems to be no one who has an explanation for all the details the car has. It almost seems to defy logical explanation. As one person who looked at the car body details and then the suspension modifications said, you don’t put the two thing together for anything typical. You have a customized body much like a show car, but then you have a variety of modifications to the suspension which seem functional only and has nothing to do with looks. And vice versa.

                      So anyhow, I will send you a couple more pictures and you tell me…….any comments would be very much appreciated.

                      Sincerely,

                      Mark Mundorff
                      Lincoln NE"

                      So there you have the latest comments from Mark regarding the puzzle of his '59 Tbird. Was this, perhaps, a prototype or concept car that Ford was working on, regarding roof line, side and hood venting, front and rear suspension, that got away from Ford? It rarely happened, but on occasion it has, apparently. Or was this someone who bought the car off a car lot, and had it modified like this for whatever reasons? We may never know, because Mark has not been able to trace the car back very far beyond his buying it many years ago. Here are the latest pix he sent.
                      Attached Files

                      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                      "It's Hip To Be Square"
                      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Ray, thanks for posting the updates for Mark. Good to hear that the car is running and being driven again.

                        Mark, keep the pictures coming, some engine bay [especially the modified inner fender drivers side near the fender vent, relocated coolent tank] and transmission/clutch linkage photos when it's up in the air again. Quite a unique car, if it could only talk and tell the story.

                        I was curious if the traction bars, panhard bar and front shocks were missing or removed by you.
                        Last edited by GTE427; September 21st, 2011, 01:51 PM.
                        Ken
                        1959 J Convertible
                        1960 J Hardtop

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

                          Here are some additional comments and pix from Mark on his '59 Tbird, including the Data Plate info. Notice that it was an all black car when it left the factory, with black on black leather interior, according to the Data Plate. It also had a COM in it, and a Code 5 Axle - 2.91.1. 10H was its scheduled build date, but look at the grease pencil marking on the Data Plate. Does that indicated that someone scheduled it as the 359th car to be built that day instead of the 343th? If so, why? Was something special going to be done to this car? I wish Bob Oeshger (sp?) was still alive to ask him! Look at the front of the car with the extra headlights in the grill!!! Here is what Mark had to say additional.

                          "Ray, here is the patent plate you were asking for. If you enlarge it, you can read it, but if not, the specs are below.

                          I just thought of something.......there is the hand written note for
                          "359" on the plate. The plate says this is unit 343.....what if the
                          359 was the true prod number? The plate says it has an automatic which
                          it does not......that could have been changed easily enough of
                          course...but could the 359 refer to the real prod number? Is there an
                          existing 59 T-bird out there that is a 359 that anyone knows of?

                          I will email you the info here too:

                          J9YH165343 Body, 63A Color: A Trim: 1Y DATE: 10H Trans: 4 Axle: 5

                          Hand written number of curiosity 359 in lower right hand corner.

                          mark"

                          Mark, I can tell you that there is no J9YH165359 or H9YH165359 registered in the Thunderbird Registry. That does not mean that there is no a #359 out there somewhere, or was.. Your Tbird Registry number for your '59 Tbird is 34135

                          Here is some additional information regarding the '59 430MEL equipped Tbirds. As you can see, there were several axles available for the 430MEL engine. His is a Code 5 2.91.1 axle.
                          http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...fications.html
                          According to the data plate, this Tbird was a Raven Black car when it left the factory.
                          http://automotivemileposts.com/paint1959tbird.html
                          And it had an all black leather interior.
                          http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...eriortrim.html

                          Here are the additional pix.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by YellowRose; September 21st, 2011, 04:32 PM. Reason: Additional Information

                          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                          '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                          "It's Hip To Be Square"
                          Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                          http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

                            Mark sent me some pictures of his spare tire. Here is what he had to say.

                            "Ray, I stopped to check on the car and opened the trunk for the first
                            time in 22 yrs as well. I did not remember what if any spare tire was
                            in it. But there was one there. Here are a couple pictures. Notice
                            that the center has been welded in. Same as those used for track
                            racing. The hub is a KH with a Ford stamp as well. The tire has a
                            very readable serial number if that would be of any interest. The rim
                            is painted the same color as the red color inside the trunk.

                            Thanks,

                            Mark"

                            I am wondering if those are OEM rims on the spare. I looked at my rims that I used to have on Rose, and this rim on his spare looks just like the ones that I bought to replace my old ones. Same venting, same nubs for mounting dog dish hubcaps on. Mine had different venting and no nubs. The rims I bought are disk brake ready rims that look just like his. I asked him if he has disc brakes on his '59 because I do not remember if he said it did or not. Here are the pix he sent.
                            Attached Files

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                            "It's Hip To Be Square"
                            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

                              Mark sent me a couple of more pix and some additional comments. Here they are.

                              "Hi Ray,

                              The rear axle ratio is either 4:11 or 4:57, but it is one or the other.
                              It has a heavy duty Borg Warner T-85 3 speed overdrive and 9 inch rear
                              end. The note that came with it simply called the car a Thunderbird
                              Special and noted heavy duty everything. The dealer we bought it from
                              was Morton Motor Company in Omaha that went out of business years ago.
                              They were a Studebaker and Mercedes Dealer. The tire and rim are what
                              came with the car. It does not have disc brakes at all. One of the
                              things that all racers did back then was weld the hubs onto the rims and
                              rely on just rivets or factory welds. Also some would change the
                              centers to heavier centers to handle the loads caused by racing.

                              Mine does have the black leather interior. There are no other power
                              accessories. The first paint color after black was gold. Then several
                              shades of red.

                              This car did come from Omaha and that is where the 59 T-bird came from
                              that almost won the first Daytona 500. That was supposed to have been
                              one of the Holman and Moody "race ready" T-Birds. But they were
                              supposed to be mostly "stock". None of the body work done on mine was
                              ever done on those cars. But this car has suspension modifications for
                              a very specific purpose that that was stability and why need that much
                              "stability" to get groceries or have a show car. Does a show car need
                              4 shocks and traction rods and track rods? And does a stock car need
                              the vents and roof molding details to race? Probably not.

                              Was it someone's pet project just because....maybe. Nothing makes
                              typical sense even for that though !?!?

                              So, I would very much welcome anyone's guess....

                              Thanks again,

                              Mark"

                              Is there anyone in Omaha who could do so digging for us regarding the Morton Motor Company? I would love to get in contact with someone who was associated with the company who might know something about this Tbird! I think it is unusual that a Studebaker and Mercedes dealership would have brought in a Ford from the factory. Unless it was a special order from someone with the company or associated with them. I would like to find out where the records of the company are today. Here are the pix.
                              Attached Files

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                              "It's Hip To Be Square"
                              Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

                                Mark sent me some additional comments and also sent me the picture he scanned in from Alan's book showing the air vents on the side of the concept car Ford was working on. To me they look just like the ones on the side of Mark's '59 Tbird. What say you? I have not been able to find my copy of Alan's book to read what all he wrote about the concept or project cars Ford was working on around the time of the Squarebirds. When you look at the concept picture take a good look at the C-Pillar. That looks to be the long winged Tbird that is there, though it is barely visible in this scan. It might show up better in the actual picture in the book. I wish I could find my book!

                                "Good morning Ray,

                                Some food for thought for breakfast this morning

                                Again, thanks for all your help and effort for me. I have another
                                little detail that may leave you wondering. If you have Alan Tast's
                                bible publication, "THUNDERBIRD 55-66", on page 81, in the lower
                                left hand concept sketch, look at the side vents shown in the sketch
                                and then look at the side vents actually cut into my T-Bird. The
                                location, proportions, corner radius, forward slope of the leading
                                edge and finally, the thin center rib in the middle of the vent
                                extending back into the door. Both are almost identical in ways that
                                only can be explained that one was aware of the other!! Ask yourself,
                                who copied who, and when?

                                Alan Tast, who by the way, has done an outstanding/brilliant job on
                                this publication and EVERY T-Bird owner should have at least one copy
                                for reference and one copy to keep for good, noted that Ford was
                                working on various ways to give the T-Birds a face lift for the 60
                                models. These efforts centered around the grill, roof line and tail
                                lights. Could mine reflect some of those design ideas put into reality
                                along with other body modifications? Could mine have a direct
                                connection to Ford somehow?
                                Thanks Ray,
                                Mark Mundorff

                                Ray, here is the best I could do on this........ thanks. Compare it
                                to the picture I recently sent to you that was of the vent on my T-bird
                                and you tell me if there is not an uncanny resemblance? Also, as a
                                thought. Have you ever seen any T-Bird anywhere or another sketch or
                                anything that would suggest the idea for this style came from there.
                                Also, while it does look like Corvette vents, this car had the vents
                                put in long before Corvettes were using them, which began in 1967 but of
                                course would have been in a design concept as well at least several
                                years prior. My point is, where else would such a close match come
                                from but Ford design concepts? You tell me.....
                                Thanks Ray
                                Mark"
                                Attached Files

                                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                                '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                                "It's Hip To Be Square"
                                Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                                http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X