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  • #61
    Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
    Lance warns about using bone yard parts, then recommends finding junk yard rims. What's up with that?
    From the info that I have been able to gather, it is because you cannot get new disc friendly rims with dog ears for hubcaps. The new 14" x 6" rims are for Rangers and Aerostars that do not use "poverty" hubcaps. So if you want disc friendly rims with lugs for hubcaps, you have to get used ones.
    sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

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    • #62
      Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

      I think Howard might have answered the question that Dave had about getting 14" rims from junkyards. I tried to contact Lance this morning, but being Saturday, he is not answering the phone. I do not know if anyone can find a source for new rims that do have the nubs for mounting dog dish hubcaps and are the right rims for a conversion. I intend to visit some of the places like Discount Tires, shops that specialize in selling tires and rims and see what they say. I know that Autozone, and probably O'Reilly's, and maybe Advanced Auto Parts dont sell rims because they dont sell tires. I know that Autozone does not for sure because I stopped there yesterday. Lance said his source of 14" rims to do this conversion was junkyards and they are very hard to find now. He only has a couple of sets left that he can use to do a 14" disk brake conversion in house. After that, I gathered it all hinges on finding some more 14" rims like those he uses. If anyone can find a source for used or new rims off cars previously described, please let us know. I am thinking that maybe, down the road, I should bite the bullet and switch to 15" rims and tires. He said then there would be no problem of finding rims for the conversion. Or maybe the 15"ers you put on will do the trick!

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
      "It's Hip To Be Square"
      Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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      • #63
        Reply From John Draxler

        Today, I received an email from John Draxler of Tbird Ranch regarding 14" rims to look for to use with the disk brake conversion. Here is what was said. I am going to include the email address of the person who sent this to John two years ago. Maybe this will help. I will also post the pictures that came with this. The subject line references Bulletbirds, for some reason.

        David B. Carter" <davidbcarter@msn.com>
        Date: October 19, 2007 1:35:30 PM CDT
        To: <jdrax@tds.net>
        Subject: Bulletbirds - Front Wheel Spindles Rims that fit

        The 14” rims were not too hard to find at a wrecking yard that has been in business at least since the 1970’s era. I paid $20 each for the rims. The key point in finding the rims are: 14” rim size 5 ½ “ wide Bolt pattern 5 on 4 ½” Center hole 2 ¾” to keep the hub a perfect fit over the rotor (Hub-Centric) And the key identifier of the rim is the ‘pinch’ marks in the rim surface. See picture:

        My comments: It seems to me, from this, that you would not want a 14x6" or 14x7" rim. Also, if that picture of the disk brake installed is the passenger side rim, then the calipers are on the rear of the disk brake. That would mean they would not interfere with the sway bar. Right? If that is the drivers side rim, then that caliper is in front and would interfere with the sway bar. Right?

        Now for the pix..





        Attached Files

        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
        "It's Hip To Be Square"
        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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        • #64
          Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
          ...if that picture of the disk brake installed is the passenger side rim, then the calipers are on the rear of the disk brake...
          That's right, it is a RH spindle.
          Next question is, what size tires are suitable for a 14" X 5-1/5" rim? I can not imagine they will be very wide. - Dave
          My latest project:
          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

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          • #65
            Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

            Thanks, Dave!

            I am presently running 14x6" rims with P225/70R14's on the rims. I don't know if one can run those tires on a 14x5.5 rim or not, or on a 14x7" rim, for that matter. I guess someone needs to tell me if I can. Does a half inch or an inch difference in rim width mean you have to change to a different tire? The rims that I got from Casey and painted yellow are 14x7" rims.

            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
            "It's Hip To Be Square"
            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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            • #66
              We use the same tire for different rims at Volvo, depending on markets and different comfort demands. I understand there is no performance loss or just very little up to 1/2 inch difference.
              On heavy cars, like SUV´s, it is more critical, as the tire need to hold the weight of the car.
              From what I know, our Birds, driving them from anything between carfeul and normal, we will never ever have any performance/ reability/ safety issue. Not even close.
              sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth"
              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

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              • #67
                Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                Here is some additional information that John Draxler just sent me...

                The dish part of the rim has to look like those in the photos. If you look at those and then the ones on your car (speaking of the ones on my Tbird without the mounting "nubs" for dog dish hubcaps, I gather) you will see a big difference there. This is so it clears the caliper. and yes a 14 x 6 will work fine. They MUST be off of a disk brake car and look for that front dish. That is the tell tale sign.

                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                "It's Hip To Be Square"
                Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
                  Thanks, Dave!

                  I am presently running 14x6" rims with P225/70R14's on the rims...
                  I got this table from a tire web site:
                  Stock Tire - 205/75R15
                  Section Width:8.07 in 205 mm
                  Rim Diameter:15 in 381 mm
                  Rim Width Range: 5 - 7.5 in
                  Overall Diameter: 27.10 in 688.34 mm
                  Sidewall Height:6.05 in 153.67 mm
                  Radius:13.55 in 344.17 mm
                  Circumference:85.13 in 2162.3 mm
                  Revs per Mile: 767.5

                  Tire 1 - 225/70R14
                  Section Width: 8.85 in 225 mm
                  Rim Diameter: 14 in 355.6 mm
                  Rim Width Range: 6 - 7.5 in
                  Overall Diameter: 26.40 in 670.56 mm
                  Sidewall Height:6.20 in 157.48 mm
                  Radius:13.20 in 335.28 mm
                  Circumference:82.93 in 2106.4 mm
                  Revs per Mile: 787.8

                  Diameter Difference: 2.59%

                  The site indicates 205 (or 215) X 75R X 14" can go on a 5.5" rim, but not the lower profile 70R's. Any way you look at it, requires new wheels and tires. I pulled off 7.50 X 14's and went with a 15" wheel. My new P205 75R 15" tires are slightly lower than the 14's but they are radial. I suppose I could have gone a little taller, but these were very convenient (and cheap). - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                    Thanks, Dave!

                    That is good information to have! Hopefully JohnG will grab this and the website info for the Technical Resource Library.


                    I got some additional information from John Draxler this afternoon also. He said...

                    "The flairbird wheels will not work. On a Squarebird, a 14x7 will hit on the upper ball joint if I am not mistaken, not been tried by me so cannot tell you.

                    The dish part I am referring to is the whole center part of the wheel, not the rim part where the tire mounts on.

                    If you look at the first photo you can see how the dish is made. Those nubs for the hubcaps are not the key at all. The key is the way that dish is shaped. It offsets itself so as to clear the caliper.

                    The only way I can tell is by looking at that dish.

                    I do not know which wheels will all fit as this is just something that is trial and error. I do know that the (late '70's) Torino and Ranchero rims will fit."

                    You must know that the 14" rims you are getting definetly came off a car with disk brakes...

                    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                    '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                    "It's Hip To Be Square"
                    Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                    http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                    • #70
                      steel wheel builders

                      On this discussion I thought I would mention just having some built. You could have the rim that would fit the disc and then have the center with the hub cap provision installed. You could also get the offset etc you wanted. When I lived in Denver we had a place called C&D wheel that made all the local reverse wheels...remember them..black with a baby moon but I can't find them doing a search. I did find the following so I would think with a little work you could find someone to build your wheels and you would have what you want and be brand new. Just a thought Grant

                      http://www.earlywheel.com/index.html
                      Grant
                      NCbird on the Coast of NC
                      "Dads Bird" for my father

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                      • #71
                        Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                        Thanks for the additional information, Grant! I just talked with the guy at Early Wheels. He told me the problem with finding the right 14" rims these days is that much of them have been crushed. He said that when steel went sky high in recent years, that most of the salvage yards/pick-n-pull places crunched those old cars, wheels and all. He also said that many of the pick-n-pull places he knows of just have the car, jacked up, to take parts off of, and they have pulled the tires and rims and probably crushed them. He told me what I already knew, that the easiest way to go was to switch to 15" or bigger rims, find the right set that matched the 14" specs and I would have no problems doing a switch to disk brakes. Anyone want to buy a nearly new set of P225/70R14 tires? lol... The spare is brand new, for that matter. In the meantime, I have a guy locally who is looking through his rim supply to see if he can find a set of 14x6" '77-'79 Versailles, Granada, LTD II, Torino or Ranchero rims. He knows what I need. He has done this conversion on his own cars in the past.

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                        "It's Hip To Be Square"
                        Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                        http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • #72
                          I feel so old....

                          just goes to show you how old a hot rodder I am. I am still in the iron ages....Grant
                          Grant
                          NCbird on the Coast of NC
                          "Dads Bird" for my father

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                          • #73
                            Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                            I made several calls to local junkyard/pick-n-pull places here this morning, to no avail. I did get some more phone numbers of other places to call, with the same negative results. Most places told me that their older cars have been crushed, wheels and all. About all they are keeping are newer cars. Later in the afternoon, I made that trip to the big Pic-N-Pull place south of me. I had been putting that off until the temps got into the 70's or so, as they are now.

                            It is a big place, and my first time to ever go to a pick-n-pull. The people were great! They hooked me up with one of their guys who knows the Ford/Lincoln/Mercury section like the back of his hand. We sat down and I explained to him what I was looking for in the way of rims and why. He told me that he knew there was not a FLM in that section that was in the 1977-1979 range. All are in the mid 80's and up. He did tell me that they have a Classic Car section for the older cars but it is only open on Saturday. The guy who runs it was off today, but he called him, and told him what I was looking for. He said he thought he had some Granada's and Ranchero's back there in that year range! I hope he is right. I will probably go see him on Saturday. I did take a walk through that FLM section to see what they had. A lot of cars that had seen their better days, for sure. They are all parts cars, none for sale, and there were people there taking needed parts off them as I walked around that area. It is a shame to see a lot of nice cars come to this, but at least, they are helping to keep other cars going.

                            In the meantime, the guy I was talking with also gave me the name and location of another pick-n-pull place that has nothing but Classic cars, as he calls them. I plan on going there tomorrow to see what I can find. The hunt goes on for 14" rims that will work!

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                            "It's Hip To Be Square"
                            Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                            http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                              I have had talks with Lance at SW Tbird, SSBC, and Drop-N-Stop this morning about disk brake conversions and rims. Lance told me that if my 14x7" rims are disk brake rims (and they seem like they might be) that they will work. That is the same thing that the others told me. He asked me what tires I was running and I told him P225/70R14's. He said that might literally be the "rub". Drop-N-Stop said the same thing. They said that P225's are pretty wide tires and they might rub against the ball joints or control arms when turning. Lance suggested replacing them with P215's and Drop-N-Stop said maybe even P205's. A P225 is nearly 8 1/2" wide. A P215 is about 8", and a P205 would be less than that. Lance suggested getting an old but still good P215 tire with good tread and popping it on one of my rims and then mount it on the car. Then sit in the car while someone is watching the tire as you turn the wheel. Look to see if it is hitting a ball joint, tie rod, or the fender, or anything else for that matter. If there is no hitting or rubbing, then a P215 might be a good way to go. He said sell my P225's and buy a set of P215's and DNS said even P205's.

                              DNS said that one could use a set of rims off a '98 Ford Ranger, as I recall. He also mentioned that any 14" Ford mid '70's disk brake equipped 5 stud car and up could be used, like a Granada. He also mentioned a '74 and up Maverick with disk brakes. He also said there are companies who will make you new steel rims for your car, like Vintage Rims, for about $65 a rim. They make them specific to how you are going to use them. In other words, they will make them as they need to be to be used on a '59 Tbird with disk brakes, using the original spindles.

                              It does appear that the set of rims I got from Casey are disk ready rims, so I am told... One of the keys is the depth of the back side of the rim. It needs to be at least 3 1/2" deep to those four welded on flanges. Mine seem to fit that criteria. They are 4 1/2" from the edge of the rim into where the flange turns up. The depth is needed for the disk brake and calipers to fit into so they wont rub against parts of the car.

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
                              "It's Hip To Be Square"
                              Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

                              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                              • #75
                                does anyone know if the Ford Ranger rims accept original style Squarebird hubcaps ???

                                john
                                1958 Hardtop
                                #8452 TBird Registry
                                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=8452


                                photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                                history:
                                http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

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