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Del's Disc Brake Conversion

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  • Del's Disc Brake Conversion

    Day 1 -
    Cleaned up garage work space
    Removed old booster, M/C and firewall bracket from car as one unit
    Drill, grind and pound out rivets to separate bracket from old booster
    Disassemble and paint bracket
    Measure and drill 3/8" holes in 2" square channel for booster side and do preliminary fit
    Re-Assemble bracket
    Order new firewall grommet for hockey stick "Power Brake Booster Pushrod Seal"
    So far, so good...
    Attached Files
    Regards,
    Don Vincent
    Amherst NY
    1960 HT 352
    TBird Registry 34042

  • #2
    Lookin' good, Don and I love your pictures. Now, screw your new clevis pin on the new booster and attach it to your top pin in the firewall bracket to find the proper centers for your bracket-to-spacers holes. The booster's input rod should end up in the center of travel.

    So, the new booster centers on the top pin but the pedal rod (hockey stick) centers on the middle pin. This raises the booster and pushes it away from the firewall.

    To me, firewall work is probably the most 'technical' part of this job. Yes, you need to lay out channels and drill holes, mount everything, etc. The 'tricky' part is in your setup.

    Most restorers deal with master cylinders that are 'wet', meaning they have already been previously bled. 'Bench Bleeding' is not known by those mechanics. Also, the car came with a master and booster, already adjusted to each other. Bench bleeding will save a lot of brake fluid if done on your bench vise. It can be done on the car but I don't suggest it. There are a couple methods shown on YouTube. I use the method that requires 'return tubes' to the reservoirs like this one: CLICK HERE. I use old lines that I cut about 8" long to bench bleed.

    The video is quick to say how damaging brake fluid is but they never mention that DOT-3 easily washes away with plain water because it is glycol-based (like your antifreeze). So if brake fluid spills, simply rinse it off.

    Boosters & masters that have never been married, must be adjusted per the Shop Manual. I find, every master is a little different and so is the booster. That's why the adjustment 'jack screw' is the booster's output screw.

    Your job is coming along nicely and I'm glad you didn't slit your square channels. - Dave
    My latest project:
    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

    Comment


    • #3
      where do these springs go?

      Day 2
      I'm pretty sure that these springs go on the clevis pin that connects to the hockey stick / push rod, but of course my pictures don't tell me and I don't see them shown in the shop manual. Do they get squeezed in on either side of the push rod in the lever? Should there also be two on the top clevis pin? I have only one...
      Attached Files
      Regards,
      Don Vincent
      Amherst NY
      1960 HT 352
      TBird Registry 34042

      Comment


      • #4
        Boy, does your setup look sweet...
        Del, my pictures don't show 'spring washers' either but if you have room, they could take up any 'slop' that might produce vibration noise. Just make sure you have room, otherwise leave them out. Your pictures of the original setup do not show washers. Also, there is 'some' rust on the original brackets. Those washers are clean.

        Could they go to your pedal screw? - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh boy - another disc conversion !!!!!

          (not trying to be sarcastic although it kinda sounds that way - going to be interesting I'm sure)

          Always fun to see what parts are used and the progress - thanks for the pics Del.

          As for the spring washers mine are on either side of the hockey stick.

          Eric

          Comment


          • #6
            They're clean because I cleaned them ;-)
            I took alot of tugging to get that lower cotter pin out yesterday, and now that I think about it, those springs were probably pushing out and causing extra sideways pressure on that cotter pin. Once the cotter pin was out and compression released I could see one of the springs still on the clevis pin. The second one had fallen to the floor under the car when the cotter pin released but I never saw it until today...

            Moving next to bench bleeding the MC. Regarding that slug for the MC, it goes in flat side first so the concave side is towards the booster, correct?
            Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
            Boy, does your setup look sweet...
            Del, my pictures don't show 'spring washers' either but if you have room, they could take up any 'slop' that might produce vibration noise. Just make sure you have room, otherwise leave them out. Your pictures of the original setup do not show washers. Also, there is 'some' rust on the original brackets. Those washers are clean.

            Could they go to your pedal screw? - Dave
            Regards,
            Don Vincent
            Amherst NY
            1960 HT 352
            TBird Registry 34042

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by del View Post
              ...Regarding that slug for the MC, it goes in flat side first so the concave side is towards the booster, correct?
              Correct. Think of it as being a 'centering hole' for a manual brake pedal rod. In fact, they leave the puck out if you have manual brakes because OEM masters had a deep hole.

              Most masters have a snap ring holding that puck in place. I don't know why the Corvette-style does not.

              For bench bleeding, I use a #3 Phillips driver in that hole with the M/C in my vise. Then I put the screwdriver on my belt buckle and rock. It's a lot easier than doing it by hand. Expect about 20 pumps. - Dave
              My latest project:
              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              Comment


              • #8
                thank you for posting pics ...It looks great
                Ready to Roll :D

                Comment


                • #9
                  [IMG]DSC02131 by Randy harsha, on Flickr[/IMG]
                  ............................................................ .................
                  I remember Spring on clevis pin, not the best pic. and late to the show 20160411_142515 by Randy harsha, on Flickr ..........................................
                  sigpic"You're never too old to become younger".!(MW)
                  Randy's Save the Bird Foundation
                  In Beautiful Fallbrook California
                  http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=60747
                  !.This is the Greatest Square on Earth.!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Del. I cant help but smile at your work its seem just the other day, We (Dave and I) did booster Its was fun learning how to dos ! the satisfaction i got made up for the pain . not to mention learn how to do a hole bunch of outhers stuff met talk to some good old Squares too.you can only see one spring but thers two, it was squshed [IMG]20160304_111622 by Randy harsha, on Flickr[/IMG]
                    Last edited by Randy; May 8th, 2017, 09:29 PM. Reason: spelling
                    sigpic"You're never too old to become younger".!(MW)
                    Randy's Save the Bird Foundation
                    In Beautiful Fallbrook California
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=60747
                    !.This is the Greatest Square on Earth.!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [IMG]20160422_113251 by Randy harsha, on Flickr[/IMG]...................................................
                      Del swell posts of yours, someday I'll test this one, soon just brake lines and right side disk.
                      sigpic"You're never too old to become younger".!(MW)
                      Randy's Save the Bird Foundation
                      In Beautiful Fallbrook California
                      http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=60747
                      !.This is the Greatest Square on Earth.!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DKheld View Post
                        Oh boy - another disc conversion !!!!!

                        (not trying to be sarcastic although it kinda sounds that way - going to be interesting I'm sure)

                        Always fun to see what parts are used and the progress - thanks for the pics Del...
                        Eric, you were one of the very first that I know, who did a front power disk brake conversion to a Squarebird.

                        The things we learned from you and your work were priceless. You also chopped our learning curve way down because (if you notice) every disk brake conversion shows slight improvement over the last. That's how it should be and we can't thank you enough for pioneering this huge decision. After all, the parts are not cheap, the work is 'custom fabrication' and we are changing brake lines around as new components are added.

                        The payoff is beyond, 'great.' I've never heard anyone say they will revert back to drums after installing this retrofit. I kind of keep track of the questions everyone has while doing this work. Oddly, I don't get the same questions.

                        Randy, I was on the phone with Del and we were talking about how hard it is to separate the upper ball joint. I told him to loosen the nut two turns, back up the spindle with a big hammer and give the other side a big 'smack' with another big hammer and the ball joint stud will fly out without using a separator or a pickle fork. How many whacks did it take you?

                        Del needs to change his bushings and that's why he's taking the upper ball joint loose.

                        Del, make sure you have a scissors jack under the lower ball joint when you do this job. Check your upper and lower bumpers too. - Dave
                        My latest project:
                        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                        --Lee Iacocca

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Big wacks don't play with little ping ping go right for Big WACKS. Mr. #10
                          ...................[IMG]20160316_185159 by Randy harsha, on Flickr[/IMG]
                          sigpic"You're never too old to become younger".!(MW)
                          Randy's Save the Bird Foundation
                          In Beautiful Fallbrook California
                          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=60747
                          !.This is the Greatest Square on Earth.!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Day 2 continued

                            Day 2 continued...
                            Got slowed down trying to adjust the jamb nut for proper MC fit. Removed the booster and ran around to several auto parts stores looking for specialty 8mm and 7mm wrenches with a sharp bend like old school bleeder wrench. Ended up with a crappy set of offset wrenches from Harbor Freight. They weren't going to work either... nuts just too thin. GRind down the 8mm still no dice. This can't be right - what am I missing?? SOS call to Dave D. "Have a helper step on the pedal and you'll have access to the jamb nut!" says Dave. Me - - forehead slap - - DOH!

                            Anyway having the booster on the bench provided the needed access to get the spring washers back where they belong surrounding the hockey stick. Thanks Eric. After dropping either washers or pin at least 1/2 dozen times finally got everything back in place. It was going to be Mission Impossible with the booster in place.

                            After reading and watching the vids again decided not to bench bleed the MC until I'm ready to install it for good.
                            Regards,
                            Don Vincent
                            Amherst NY
                            1960 HT 352
                            TBird Registry 34042

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              None of this is heavy work but it does require an 'order of assembly'. If you ever worked on a motorcycle, it's kind of the same. For adjustment trials, you will assemble things a few times.

                              By all means, mount the firewall bracket, booster, and all the pedal hardware, first. Then I would mount the combination valve because there is still access below the booster. Use this space to run your brake lines to all the wheels.

                              Now, it's time to adjust the M/C and booster. The booster should be operational from your pedal. If you step on the pedal, your adjustment jack screw and jam nut will stick out of the booster for easy access with common tools.

                              We have tried several compounds between the booster and master, for the correct jack screw setting. We used putty, PlayDoh, clay, etc. The best one so far is a slice of American cheese (still in the plastic wrapper). A small piece neatly fits, the cheese doesn't get all over, and the result shows nicely through the plastic. Oh, and it removes easily.

                              You want the output jack screw to just barely move the master cylinder piston. If you go too far, the brakes will never 'reset', allowing fluid to return to the reservoirs because when the pistons are 'at rest' **"the ports should be open to the combination valve." This is a 'trial and error' fitting that normally takes at least a few tries.

                              When a M/C is 'wet', the piston requires more pedal pressure to move. This becomes evident when you bench bleed. Use this resistance to your advantage while adjusting the booster. You can keep the setup hoses intact or plug the ports during booster setup.

                              The very last part of 'plumbing' is to connect the M/C lines. Then, the system needs to be bled in the conventional manner.
                              **"the ports should be open to the combination valve." Use this to your advantage. Since the front valve lines are open to the front calipers, open one or both front caliper bleed screws and wait for gravity to work. The lines will fill, the caliper will fill and eventually brake fluid will come out after air is purged. If you don't want to wait, bleed in the conventional way.

                              Again, plain tap water will rinse DOT-3 away. If you rinse immediately, no harm will come to paint, animals or plants.

                              If I didn't mention before, paint your castings before rust can start. I use BBQ (high-temp) paint by Rustoleum, found everywhere at reasonable prices. - Dave
                              My latest project:
                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

                              Comment

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