Del's Disc Brake Conversion

[del]

>>Now that you're done with plumbing, how hard was it?

I'll let you know after the lines are bled...

[del]

Happy Thunderbird Appreciation Day!

Unfortunately we are rained out here in Buffalo, so our T-Bird Appreciation Day event was cancelled, she's on her wheels and brakes are operational. Got everything buttoned up yesterday afternoon and drove around the neighborhood and stopped 20 or so times. A couple of times hitting hard and easily locking the front wheels. Car does stop effectively but has more pedal free play than I'd like. I may still have some air in the rear lines. Have some new check valve bleeders to install in rears tomorrow.

When I take it for state inspection & front end alignment next week, I will ask the garage "check my work" on the right A Arm and ball joint install.

Friday was not a great day though, gotta say. Bench bleeding the M/C was straight forward and I was feeling good. Those little tubes with a fitting on one end came in handy when I had to re-bleed it after fixing all my leaks! When doing the rear plumbing I had stopped at the 1st union under the driver's seat... bad decision... it is now all new back to the rear rubber hose. Also stripped one of bleeders on the front and broke the needle on the 3/16 flaring tool adapter. And ran out of brake line. Most of the leaks were just needing tightening, but one was a bad flare so needed to remake that piece.

[simplyconnected]

Sounds like good news to me, Don. I have a few 'helps'...
When your brake pads and shoes are new, they don't work as well until they are 'bedded-in'. So, braking will improve on its own.

Spongy pedal feel can be caused by a few things. Remember, your setup is different. Any loose hardware from the pedal to the M/C will cause flex. Any kind of flex will be felt in the pedal, so watch the booster and master while someone repeatedly stands on the brake pedal. If you see movement, tighten it out.

If the pedal feels like it's too low, that can be from air. Yes, air is a common culprit for most symptoms but it's not alone. If you feel the system is bled properly and the pedal is still low, Examine both booster rods (input and output). The input clevis should travel through the middle of its arc for best response. Then, adjust the output jack screw into the M/C about 1/4-turn more. You don't need to take brake lines off for this, simply take the nuts off the M/C and pull it to the side. When done with the jack screw, re-install the master.

I always encourage everyone to replace ALL their brake lines and rubber hoses. I know we had discussion about this. Since most folks replace the rear hose, it makes sense to re-pipe at least to there. (In Michigan, we can never get that connection apart due to rust so new line is a must for us.) Re-piping the rear axle is easy because the lines are accessible, they connect to a brass tee (which rarely causes trouble) and the lines are short. Even if the lines are frozen solid to the wheel cylinders, they can be cut close to the nut. If a 6-point socket doesn't remove the nut or the bleeder screw is destroyed, a new wheel cylinder only costs a few bucks. I always use Teflon tape on the bleeder screw threads just to keep any water out and to lubricate.

Flaring tool adapter needle broke? I've never heard of that. Return the tool because that isn't a stress point.

Sorry you had one bad flare. A bad flare is normally seen, immediately. If you need more brake line, let me know. For your first rodeo, you did very well. - Dave

[del]

Thanks to all!

Thanks for all your helps along the way Dave and to Bryan, Randy, Marcos and Eric for pitching in there too. Would never have attempted this without your help! Two huge thumbs up to all the participants on this site.

These 65 yr old bones are weary...my normal day is spent mostly sitting in front of a computer, so these last two weeks have been something else! I'm pretty sure every muscle in my body has had a workout. Most of the actual work is not that strenuous, but getting up and down from under the car 8 zillion times gives you a renewed appreciation for lifts and pits...

The 'Bird is in the hands of a professional for what will constitute the final tweaking, but happy to report that my squeak is gone so I must have got that A Arm in OK!

Has any else noticed that when you get these cars up on jacks and bang on the front spring you get a an most perfect G chord?

[simplyconnected]

...The 'Bird is in the hands of a professional for what will constitute the final tweaking...

This makes it sound like the ol' Bird has passed on to a better life...

...yeah, I remember the ol' girl when she looked like this:


Now, she is in better hands (may she rest in peace).

Don, I'm still a little bit older than you but I don't let a couple back surgeries get in the way of some good ol' wrenching. I feel your pain when it comes to getting up and down so I lay out a nice mat of cardboard, lay out all my parts and tools, then park these old bones in the same spot until that area is DONE. Climbing ladders is the same. I go up one time before each 'break'. BTW, Vicodin and I are very close friends whenever I get a flare up. - Dave

[DKheld]

That first time stopping with the disc's was great - mine seemed like a different car. Would be out driving mine but the rain won't let up around here. Hope it's a nice sunny day when yours is finished and you get to take it out for a nice long drive.

heh heh "up and down from under the car 8 zillion times" yep - think that is exactly the number of times it took for my disc conversion.

X2 on the cardboard as Dave mentions and I'm going to have to try his teflon trick. The bleeders on the replacement MG calipers are co**** thread and leak when bleeding them. OEM was fine thread - sounds like teflon would be the fix. Had a center pin break on my flaring tool also. Bought a K-Tool after that - big difference (big differece in price too though)

I wouldn't know a G chord if it crept up and bit me in the a...... Oops......I mean .....big toe.

Eric

[simplyconnected]

...I'm going to have to try his teflon trick...

You guys in the South have it good. We get salt, which is great for melting snow but then rolling tires produce airborne salt spray. Unless our garages are heated (or the cement floor is insulated with cardboard) the salt migrates everywhere, even if we never take the car out. Salt and water attract each other.

So, our steel brake lines tend to rust shut. To remedy, I do what I can to keep moisture out. For example, I slide the flare nut back and put a couple wraps of Teflon tape on the tubing, then slide the nut over it. I don't get Teflon in the mating surfaces. Then I put some on the threads of the nut. The idea is to keep the space between the nut and brake line filled with Teflon so water cannot enter.

This has worked for me for decades. None of my fittings freeze any more. The worst ones were at hose joints, typically steel against steel, like at a front wheel where the nut is vertical as it connects to the hose. Water goes right in and stays there.

Usually at the first brake job, I do the Teflon trick. - Dave

[Yadkin]

+1 on the Teflon trick, especially for the bleeder screw. The teflon in the threads keeps the threads sealed enough so when bleeding by vacuum, a lot less air "cheats" through the threads, giving you a false positive of air still in the line.

Instead of tape though, lately I have been using fuel resistant pipe thread sealant.

[Yadkin]

You guys in the South have it good. We get salt...

I was joking with a client the other day about a product that we've been using to repair leaning/ cracked retaining walls. Before we had this product the repair was a lot more invasive, or expensive, or took up space in a basement. I joked that I like it so much it is #4 on my priority list of what is most important to me, after freedom, family, and cars.

It just occured to me those are also the three reasons I cite for moving South.

[simplyconnected]

...Instead of tape though, lately I have been using fuel resistant pipe thread sealant.

DOT-3 brake fluid isn't fuel. It's glycol-based and washes off with plain water. Regular pipe tape works well. Been doin' it forever because for some odd reason, I have about ten rolls. The stuff is amazing. I watched a Pipefitter make a gland for a valve using the tape. He rolled off a bunch then twisted it into a rope. Worked great and it got me thinking... - Dave

[Yadkin]

DOT-3 brake fluid isn't fuel. It's glycol-based and washes off with plain water. Regular pipe tape works well. Been doin' it forever because for some odd reason, I have about ten rolls. The stuff is amazing. I watched a Pipefitter make a gland for a valve using the tape. He rolled off a bunch then twisted it into a rope. Worked great and it got me thinking... - Dave

I use fuel resistant because it is a 'one size fits all' solution on my garage shelf, and makes a neater finished assembly than tape.

[del]

update on disc brake conversion

Greetings All ~
Wanted to share an update and see if anyone else has had a similar problem. My conversion is a year or so old - mustang rotors, s10 calipers and related recommended fittings. I have had the right front brake hose come loose at the caliper twice, but I believe it was due in both cases to the right front taking a huge dip when driving on uneven terrain. Last night the cruise was on grass (yea!) but also a lot uneven in spots. Whilst navigating to a shady spot the right front took a dip. Upon leaving the brake pedal was giving me the old soft shoe. Had to get AAA flat bed home because of course I had no tools with me. Last summer, in a rather sorry parking lot while turning and backing up the right front dipped into a huge pothole. I was luckily able to make it home thanks to that dual m/c!

The hose set I used was from Rock Auto Bendix 36646. What's the best way to get a replacement hose that's a little longer?

Thanks as always!

[simplyconnected]

...My conversion is a year or so old - mustang rotors, s10 calipers and related recommended fittings. I have had the right front brake hose come loose at the caliper twice...
...The hose set I used was from Rock Auto Bendix 36646. What's the best way to get a replacement hose that's a little longer?..

I'm a bit confused. Rock auto doesn't sell a Bendix #36646 but they do sell Raybestos BH36646. It is 15-1/3" long, which should be plenty long enough to fit either 4WD or 2WD S-10 calipers on your Squarebird.

These hoses are fastened with banjo bolts that are NEVER supposed to come loose. (I assume you used copper washers with the banjo bolts.) Those are the exact hoses I am using with my S-10 conversion. I've never had an issue. You are the first that I have heard, that had a problem with hoses.

So this begs the question, why is only one side coming loose? Both sides use the same length hose and both sides mount in the identical fashion. Something is really wrong. Can you take pictures of both sides so I can see? We WILL get to the bottom of this. - Dave


I just thought of this: Are your banjo bolts the correct length? next, I would examine thread integrity on both the caliper and banjo bolt. This 'fit' should withstand and maintain a healthy tightening. This may be why your hose is coming loose.

[JohnG]

Just for the record, what might the torque spec be for a banjo bolt with fresh copper washers, installed into a steel caliper?

[del]

good question

Hi John, if that question is for me, I haven't a clue what the torque spec would be. You? I got that sucker as tight as my 67 yr old sphincter would allow.