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  • #76
    Booster clearance and R&P

    Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
    When I retrofit rack-and-pinion steering, I had the engine out so I could sit on the #2 crossmember. I pulled the steering shaft up then cut the tube and inserted a nylon bushing for my lower bearing.
    Yes, I saved the pics and bookmarked the thread they were in. I have lots of metal working/fabrication tools, but not a lathe, so will find a bearing to use there just cause it's easier for me. How did you shape the "D" into the shaft itself?
    The rack gear already came with accommodations for the straight tie rods and heim joints that I bought from speedwaymotors.com. So, the new tie rods hug the back of the #2 crossmember much the same as the OEM tie rods did.
    I noticed that they looked like they were very close to the same geometry as the OEM inner tie rods. The bracket your Speedway tie rods attach to didn't come with it though, right?

    Have been looking at pics of racks and see it looks like it has a couple bolt holes only at tie rod attachment points.

    Or does the Speedway-provided unit have that bracket already? I had been looking at the 22109 cavalier rack on Rock Auto being I saw that part number mentioned.

    I was referring to the time and effort Howard, Ray and I spent in the design, build and tryout for the FIRST firewall bracket. There were no suppliers for Squarebird owners, so we had to make our own.
    Yes, I gathered that it is probably easier to just use an OEM 1960 firewall side booster bracket to replace or add to the Kelsey Hayes bellow setup.

    But, I have the detailed bracket spec's from Ray to work from and change slightly if the stock firewall side bracket won't work with my engine.

    AC plenum retention doesn't appear to be a problem using the firewall bracket and pivot mechanism as delivered in OEM profile though and apparently the same bracket also clears a taller 430.

    Although the KH bellows booster won't provide sufficient brake assist alone, wouldn't retaining it along with a new firewall side booster of any diameter actually increase the brake assist using both boosters, rather than discarding it?

    DKheld (Eric Taylor) was another very valuable pioneer in this but he used Granada spindles and brakes on his SB WITH his OEM 10" booster (designed for drum brakes). Those who had 'under the dash' bellows boosters were simply out of luck.
    I installed a Granada disk brake conversion (including spindles)on a 65 Fairlane Sport Coupe, but that didn't have AC or the booster complications, as they were unboosted brakes.

    Harder to find those spindles now. I have a spare 68 Torino set of spindles though I don't see any advantage to changing spindles when using the Scarebird kit.

    I keep writing about this wonderful dual 8" booster but I don't think you're getting 'where the 8" comes from'. Here is a two stage booster retrofit on an OEM firewall bracket:

    Good pic, didn't have one from that angle before. Saved to project folder on IPad. Actually looks spacious compared to my 73 Mustang with 460 and same valve covers as Greg though..

    [*]It has 2" spacers behind the booster because of hole-center differences. The spacers could be shorter,
    If the spacers were shorter, what would you do to compensate for booster activation rod then being correspondingly too long?

    [*]The 'step' in the body of the booster (for the second diaphragm),[*]The major diameter (10") is only at the flange, 8" is in the middle, then it tapers to a smaller diameter,
    Yep, had concluded that boosters without the 'step' were single stage. I was uncertain if the diameter referred to the booster 'seam' flange, or the diameter of the larger diaphragm. Now I know..

    [*]How close it is to this FE valve cover.
    Yes, that was one of my concerns, but that pic angle makes it appear that the larger 10" diameter of booster joining flange looks like it sits far to the rear of the engine/trans coupling point.

    Even the 8" diameter of the larger diaphragm sits behind that. Looks promising...

    And even with longer 385 series motor, the engine/trans coupling point front-to-back probably stays there relative to brake booster position. Unless bell depth on a 385 series C6 trans and an FE C6 trans differ. Coupling point may move forward if it moves at all, judging from Greg's clearance between C6 and lower firewall.

    Thanks again Dave,

    Mike
    Last edited by Brushwolf; August 10th, 2018, 06:27 AM.

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    • #77
      Scarebird kit wait time.

      Originally posted by p38fighter View Post
      59 convertible
      I just received my kit from Scarebird yesterday. Ordered it end of last week.
      Yeah, that website "potential delay" notice is probably intended for items they don't produce and sell a lot of.

      But, I still have to go out and bring the car back from 140 miles away and pull motor and trans, replace all the ball joints and A frame bushings, clean everything up, paint the parts, etc...

      So even if it takes a few weeks, the delay probably wouldn't matter.

      Thanks, Mike

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      • #78
        Got all my brake parts including Scarebird brackets, but still waiting for front end suspension rebuild kit ordered from Kantor...

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Brushwolf View Post
          ...How did you shape the "D" into the shaft itself?
          I used a simple Harbor Freight angle grinder to cut both sides of a round shaft into a 'Double-D'. Cut a rough shape, then whittle a little at a time while checking with a dial caliper or micrometer. I love using bluing (layout) ink to show high spots.
          Originally posted by Brushwolf View Post
          ...The bracket your Speedway tie rods attach to didn't come with it though, right?
          Have been looking at pics of racks and see it looks like it has a couple bolt holes only at tie rod attachment points.
          Or does the Speedway-provided unit have that bracket already? I had been looking at the 22109 cavalier rack on Rock Auto being I saw that part number mentioned.
          You can make a couple spacers for your heim joints to bolt to the rack gear. Get the rack gear home. If you need to make a spacer, so be it. The important part comes when ordering your tie rods. Call Speedway and ask them HOW TO MEASURE tie rod lengths before you order. They make any length you want but YOUR method of measuring is probably different from theirs.
          Originally posted by Brushwolf View Post
          ...Yes, I gathered that it is probably easier to just use an OEM 1960 firewall side booster bracket to replace or add to the Kelsey Hayes bellow setup.
          Although the KH bellows booster won't provide sufficient brake assist alone, wouldn't retaining it along with a new firewall side booster of any diameter actually increase the brake assist using both boosters, rather than discarding it?..[/QUOTE]Been through this before and I'm leaving it up to you. If you feel a difference, keep the bellows. Let us know your findings. - Dave
          My latest project:
          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          Comment


          • #80
            Parts much..

            Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
            I used a simple Harbor Freight angle grinder to cut both sides of a round shaft into a 'Double-D'. Cut a rough shape, then whittle a little at a time while checking with a dial caliper or micrometer. I love using bluing (layout) ink to show high spots.
            You can make a couple spacers for your heim joints to bolt to the rack gear. Get the rack gear home. If you need to make a spacer, so be it. The important part comes when ordering your tie rods. Call Speedway and ask them HOW TO MEASURE tie rod lengths before you order. They make any length you want but YOUR method of measuring is probably different from theirs. - Dave
            Yes, I was reading how Speedway does that measurement yesterday. Odd.. Measure as if the ends are installed, center to center of Heim pivot point, though they aren't installed. Then they apparently deduct for that difference. Will return to that later.

            OK, I ordered the Cavalier 22109 rack and rubber bushings for it, Heim joints and locking nuts, a few spacers (cheap..) and will leave the U-joints, steering couplers for column and rack - and the tie rods until the brackets are made and can mock it up.

            Have some Prussian blue on hand but haven't figure out for sure what diameter the steering shaft is, so will order that and remainder of parts when I have original steering gear out.

            Also ordered new coil springs and spring cushions for a 430 w/o AC, since the 460 is probably 40 lbs lighter than a 430 when using an aluminum intake. But adding back the weight of the factory AC at least partially offsets that.

            Probably will get new rear leaf springs too, but will wait with that and rear brake overhaul until the motor is in.

            Of course, if a cast iron CM really weighs 220 lbs compared to 145 lbs for the C6 being used, that is another 75 lbs less with probably more than half that trans weight differential coming off the front, so 430 spring could be a little stiff, but I'd rather risk it being a bit stiff than a bit mushy using an FE spring.

            Thanks, Mike

            Comment


            • #81
              Del's Disc Brake Conversion

              Tom ~ scumdog sent me this information regarding mc & power booster mounting brackets. Here is what he had to say followed by a couple of pix.

              "Hi Ray, After reading about fitting a brake booster to a Squarebird I thought I’d post you pics of the beaker I have on my ‘55 F100. It’s made from 5 sections of steel but could have been made from three bits - or even folded from a single piece by a skilled press operator. I reinforced the inside of the firewall with a suitably shaped flat bit of heavy gauge panel steel, this was to spread the load over a larger area when the pedal is being pushed, it seems to do the job as there is no movement if the master cylinder is grabbed and wrenched up-down and side-to-side. Regards from chilly Balclutha, Tom."
              Attached Files

              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
              '59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
              "It's Hip To Be Square"
              Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or (Cell) 210-875-1411 (Home) 210-674-5781

              http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

              Comment


              • #82
                Oops!

                On the second line of my post ‘beaker’ should be ‘bracket’!
                A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.

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                • #83
                  finally got around to it

                  Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post
                  That's a pretty good post, del.
                  Brake Calipers - At first, we used the 4WD (S-10) style. I have them on my Galaxie. Then, Scarebird suggested using 2WD calipers. Turns out, the difference is where the banjo bolt connects to the caliper. 4X4 calipers connect on the back side (facing the spring). 2WD caliper banjo holes face the rear.

                  The same hose is long enough to fit either caliper but fitment is better on the 2WD version because the hose is out of the way.

                  - Dave

                  Finally got around to grinding those 4WD calipers so that the hose can connect and stay out of the way. I guess it would be interesting to know if there are any other casting differences between the two types, besides the way the hose connects. Here's some photos.
                  Attached Files
                  Regards,
                  Don Vincent
                  Amherst NY
                  1960 HT 352
                  TBird Registry 34042

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by del View Post
                    ...I guess it would be interesting to know if there are any other casting differences between the two types, besides the way the hose connects. Here's some photos.
                    Very nice job, Don! The 4WD and 2Wd take the same brake pads. They both have the same 2-1/2" piston and they use the same kits (for the seals and hardware). The only difference I can tell is where the hose port is located.

                    If you look on rockauto they show pictures of both calipers.

                    Your hose looks much better, now. I'm glad it didn't cost you any money. - Dave
                    My latest project:
                    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                    --Lee Iacocca

                    Comment

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