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1960 Edsel 292
08-21-2010, 06:44 AM
hello guys. just wanted to introduce myself.
my name is leonard and i have been messing with old cars most of my life of 47 years.
i will be posting questions here for info on a friends 1960 edsel ranger 4 door with 292 and 2 speed auto trans. he loves old cars and his edsel, he just dont know how to work on them, so thats where i step in. HA
its had a repaint a few years ago by the previous owner, and although it isnt a concoruse show car, its a good looker and gets a lot of attention, mostly because of it's rarity.
i help him tune it up and do general work on it, but the more in depth work we have another friend who does that stuff on it. my 57 chevy 3100 truck keeps me busy enough.

we are currently gathering all the info we can on doing a power boosted front disc brake conversion. in the future he wants to add a/c, since this south florida heat is getting more brutal each year.

i have posted some of my questions on another site for these old fords, and wanted to join here to get various points of views and pick your brains.

so here goes..

1. his 2 speed auto trans, (i was told its a ford-O-Matic) ?
when going from a dead stop and laying into the gas pedal a bit, it will slip into second gear. he will change the trans filter soon, (do you guys knwo where we can get one at ?) to see if that may help. hopefully it wont need a rebuild.

2. he is now ready to install power brakes on it. i found a booster and master cylinder on e-bay from a member here, oldirishdave, and will go with that set up. what are your guys thoughts on the other parts needed, like caliper brackets, calipers, rotors, bearings, etc ?
i found one site that sells just the caliper bracket, and give me all the other info needed, but its a bunch of miss matched parts, some from fords and some from chevys, like using s-10 rotors and calipers, etc.
are there any old fords or current fords we can get the rotors and calipers from to make it much easier to keep track of our parts ?

i guess thats it for now guys. tomorrow we will be doing a compression check on it, just wanting to see what we got, and diagnosing a slight stumble in the car while cruising at 30-60mph. gonna try and unhook the vacuum advance on the distributor and go for a cruise to see if thats the culprit. we just did a complete tune up and cured most of it.

ok this is getting kind of long, so i will let you guys chime in on my brake and trans questions.

thanks much.

leonard

1960 Edsel 292
08-21-2010, 06:53 AM
here is his 1960 edsel.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/DSC03325.jpg

leonard

KULTULZ
08-21-2010, 10:51 AM
She is a pretty one!

KULTULZ
08-21-2010, 11:01 AM
1. his 2 speed auto trans, (i was told its a ford-O-Matic) ?
when going from a dead stop and laying into the gas pedal a bit, it will slip into second gear. he will change the trans filter soon, (do you guys knwo where we can get one at ?) to see if that may help. hopefully it wont need a rebuild.

It is a FORD-O-MATIC 2/S PX TRANS.

http://www.transgo.com/

They will have a distributor that can give you a service kit.

2. he is now ready to install power brakes on it. i found a booster and master cylinder on e-bay from a member here, oldirishdave, and will go with that set up. what are your guys thoughts on the other parts needed, like caliper brackets, calipers, rotors, bearings, etc ?

i found one site that sells just the caliper bracket, and give me all the other info needed, but its a bunch of miss matched parts, some from fords and some from chevys, like using s-10 rotors and calipers, etc.

are there any old fords or current fords we can get the rotors and calipers from to make it much easier to keep track of our parts ?

I don't care for kits as they will present a replacement parts nightmare at some point. The GRANADA and 79 BIRD swap are the easiest. GOOGLE both and you will get all the info you should need.

YellowRose
08-21-2010, 11:12 AM
Welcome, Leonard! I see you are up and posting already this morning! Here is a quick overview of what wikipedia says about the Ford-O-Matic. In the case of the Edsel, Ford called it the Mile-O-Matic. In the Mercury, they called it the Merc-O-Matic.

Ford-O-Matic was the first automatic transmission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission) used by Ford Motor Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company), designed by Borg Warner Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BorgWarner). Introduced in 1950, the three-speed Ford-O-Matic evolved into the Cruise-O-Matic in 1958 (and a 2-speed Ford-O-Matic in 1959) and the FMX in 1968.

Leonard has been around cars, trucks and motorcycle much of his young life. Here is what else he had to say.

"I look forward to finding new friends on your site and learning along the way.
I have messed with old cars much of my life. At 47 years old I have had probably 15 cars/trucks, mostly older ones. My first was a 1970 mustang with 302 and 4 speed, then a pinto with a 351w that ran 12’s in the mile, then motorcycles, 3 different chevelles, all 396 ss cars, and am now tinkering with a 57 chevy 3100 truck.
One of my fond memories is my dads 68 ford f-100 with 360 and 3 on the tree. Drove that thing a lot when I was 16-19."

1960 Edsel 292
08-21-2010, 11:32 AM
thanks for the warm welcome guys, and for the info. i will do some searching for the granada and 79 t-bird disc conversions for the edsel.
and yellowrose, thanks for adding me to your site...
look forward to learning more about these old fords.

leonard

1960 Edsel 292
08-21-2010, 05:03 PM
also guys, correct me if im wrong.
im assuming that i will NOT need a front residual valve since the mater will be above the front calipers ?

also, do you recommend us installing a rear adjustable proportioning valve to the rear drums ?

thanks much

leonard

KULTULZ
08-21-2010, 05:27 PM
also guys, correct me if im wrong.

im assuming that i will NOT need a front residual valve since the mater will be above the front calipers ?

also, do you recommend us installing a rear adjustable proportioning valve to the rear drums ?

thanks much

leonard


IF IT WERE ME-

I would use the combination valve off the donor vehicle (aftermarket kits use a CHEVELLE valve). Both (GRANADA & BIRD) have about the same weight distribution.

You have to have a residual valve on the rear drum and that will be included in the donor combination valve. Duplicate the plumbing from a later donor and you should be covered.

The only concern will be the operation of the proportioning valve. This valve only works in a panic stop to deal with front to rear weight bias. Once you get everything plumbed and working correctly, take the car to either a skid pad or open parking lot while the surface is wet and do a few panic stops to make sure the rear doesn't come around on you.

SandyBoy
08-21-2010, 07:20 PM
I LOVE 1960 EDSELS & HAVE THE ORIGINAL SALES BROCHURE, TOO, BUT NO EDSEL! I CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY EVERY CAR I AM INTO.

1958 T-BIRDS, 1960 EDSELS AND ALL IMPERIALS FROM 1957 TO 1978, ALSO 1993 CADILAC SIXTY SPECIALS. AND AND AND AVANTI CONVERTIBLES. 2002-2004

YOUR CAR IS GREAT. I'D LIKE A 1960 CONVERTIBLE IN BLack, ALL BLACK.
ALL THE OPTIONS, AND A CONTINENTIAL KIT. GOTTA FIND MY NEAREST EDSEL DEALER AND ORDER ~~ :) WELCOME TO THE SITE, BTW

Richard D. Hord
08-21-2010, 09:34 PM
Hey Leonard,
You have one very nice car there!
Welcome!
Richard D. Hord

YellowRose
08-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Here are a couple of movie clips that Leonard send me taken while his buddy was driving his Edsel.

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/?action=view&current=MOV02965.mp4 (http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/?action=view&current=MOV02965.mp4%20%20%20%20%20http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/?action=view&current=MOV02965.mp4#%21oZZ62QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F %2Fs251.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg307%2FRATRODK ING%2F1957%25203100%2Fcar%2520shows%2F%3Faction%3D view%26current%3DMOV02964.mp4%26)

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/?action=view&current=MOV02965.mp4#!oZZ62QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2 Fs251.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg307%2FRATRODKIN G%2F1957%25203100%2Fcar%2520shows%2F%3Faction%3Dvi ew%26current%3DMOV02964.mp4%26 (http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/RATRODKING/1957%203100/car%20shows/?action=view&current=MOV02965.mp4#%21oZZ62QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F %2Fs251.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg307%2FRATRODK ING%2F1957%25203100%2Fcar%2520shows%2F%3Faction%3D view%26current%3DMOV02964.mp4%26)

simplyconnected
08-22-2010, 01:32 AM
Leonard, I wrote you a PM, but I forgot to add:
Before ordering your Scarebird brackets, make sure his brackets fit your spindles. Write him an email.

If you have self adjusters on your rear wheels, you won't need a residual valve.

Get a NEW proportioning/metering valve from OID. The metering portion ensures the rear brakes will come in first, then the fronts, then the proportioning function makes sure your rear wheels won't lock up before the fronts. These valves work every time you step on the pedal, not just in panic stops. - Dave

KULTULZ
08-22-2010, 02:51 AM
If you have self adjusters on your rear wheels, you won't need a residual valve.

Where did you hear this? Self-adjusters over-ride the need for a rear residual valve?

Get a NEW proportioning/metering valve from OID. The metering portion ensures the rear brakes will come in first, then the fronts, then the proportioning function makes sure your rear wheels won't lock up before the fronts. These valves work every time you step on the pedal, not just in panic stops. - Dave

...???...

So what you are describing is a combination valve? Front metering, pressure differential, proportioning and rear residual valve in one assembly?

These valves work every time you step on the pedal, not just in panic stops.

...???... Why would you need a feature such as that along with a front metering valve?

I think you need to do a little research in brake valve theory. You are going to get someone hurt.

And if one is going to offer advice to another one should post for all to read(not PM) to see if the advice is correct and safe.

1960 Edsel 292
08-22-2010, 07:29 AM
thanks for the kind comments on my buddy's edsel sandboy and richard d hord.
and again, thanks for all the other help from simplyconnected and kultulz....

kultulz, the reason simplyconnected pm'd me with other info is because i first pm'd him. so maybe its my bad for doing that. i will try and keep it all open in the future.
my other buddy(who dont own the edsel) is the one who will actually be doing the install, and he is a mechanic by trade and does this type of work on a daily basis. he probably dont need all this info, but sometimes my OCD kicks in and i always like to have more than enough info and research before we start a project so we can look over notes and not have to wait on comments in posts if we run into trouble or a question.
i actually started a folder for this power brake install. LOL.

again, thanks to everyone who chimed in here with answers to my questions. this is a great site.

leonard

KULTULZ
08-22-2010, 08:00 AM
kultulz,

the reason simplyconnected pm'd me with other info is because i first pm'd him. so maybe its my bad for doing that. i will try and keep it all open in the future.

leonard

Leonard,

You have the full right to PM a member directly concerning a subject. I am not a moderator or in any way connected to this board.

What my concern is (was) was the reference(s) to brake valving.

Which way you decide to go is also none of my business. I am just trying to get across that there is a lot of mis-information out there about brake retro-fits and many so called experts selling kits are not all that knowledgeable.

Simply put, whatever design you are finally going with, just study how it was plumbed OEM (and this includes aftermarket "kits") and you should be OK.

Sorry about that.

KULTULZ
08-22-2010, 12:11 PM
-PREVIOUS POST DESCRIBING SCAREBIRDS MOUNTING BRACKETS- CLICK HERE- (http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8149)-



I just finished adding scarebird disc brakes to my 59 Ranchero, all went well till I had to heat up the spacer in the kitchen oven, wife was mad over that... other wise It took 2 hours and a trip to the hardware store for some bolts.

The 14" rims rib so going to get a spacer tomorrow and see if that will work.

Dennis



Good goin', Dennis! I'd like to see your pictures, too.

Sounds like you are happy with your new disk brakes. How well do they work? Did you install a combination proportioning valve? Are you using a power assist booster?

It's true, I never heated my spacers. Just pounded them home with a pipe. They never left a mark.

If you have any questions about this setup, rattle my cage. - Dave

I am getting somewhat concerned here. Have to heat and beat them on? They do not come with hardened fasteners so one goes to HOME DEPOT and purchases cheap CHI-COM fasteners for automotive brakes?

I went to their site and it seems they recommend using a hodge-podge of random GM parts. What would you do if on a trip and some local had to find all of those differing parts to make a repair?

Do they claim 14" wheels will fit the conversion?

simplyconnected
08-22-2010, 12:30 PM
Leonard, you're doing just fine. This is an open forum but it is also a means to contact individual members.

General discussion is always encouraged and topics are widely debated. The more info passed to one another, the more we all benefit.

Personal (or Private) Messages are just that. You don't need to explain or apologize, any more than you would for a phone conversation. PM'ing is simply a way to speak with 'select' members for any reason you wish. You are certainly welcome to PM anyone anytime, and say whatever you wish. For the record, I PM'ed you because this topic has been discussed at length, here on squarebirds.org; now it is redundant.

Kultulz, I will continue the discussion regarding brakes to the 'Disk Brake Conversion' thread because that's where it belongs. We always have problems finding this kind of discussion later, if it is scattered over many threads. - Dave

1960 Edsel 292
08-22-2010, 09:12 PM
i personally thank kultulz and simplyconnected for your info and time in helping me with the power brake questions. i always gather all info i can, then go from there. you guys are great, as is everyone else who has chimed in.

my buddy ordered the scarebird brackets and will go with the booster and master from oldirishdave.

im thinking the 14 wheels are gonna be a problem. we will see when it all goes together, im guessing in a few months, after he gets all the parts together.... money is always a problem these days.

thanks again for all the help guys,

leonard

ayrwoof
08-23-2010, 10:37 PM
Ive seen two a black one and a red one and one in art markings salvage yard.. it was white.. good luck has anyone know how well first hand the
ceramic drum shoes work? oh nice ranger ..

ayrwoof
08-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Does anyone here know what manifold vaccuum a stock 352 has at idle?
and at idle in drive?? thank you guys this will help me alot?