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View Full Version : Rebuild Kit for Carter 4441 Fuel Pumps


Howard Prout
04-05-2010, 04:47 PM
Does anybody have a source for these rebuild kits? I need at least three.

YellowRose
04-05-2010, 05:54 PM
Hi Howard,

Have you tried any of the Tbird parts vendors yet? If not, Bob's Bird House, Bird Nest, Mac's and the others. You might also try googling for Rebuild Kit for Carter 4441 Fuel Pumps There are some websites there that might help.

Howard Prout
04-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Thanks Ray. I think I have been through all of those and then some. One possibility is Then and Now Automotive (http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm ). I emailed them but haven't got an answer yet. There are new fuel pumps available on eBay, some NOS, some used as well as some rebuilt AC units. I talked with one rebuilder today and they want $160 per pump to rebuild. WOW!

partsetal
04-05-2010, 08:00 PM
The Carter pump is a difficult pump to rebuild and the 160.00 price doesn't surprise me. I've got the kits for the AC pumps,, but the best place for the Carter kits is Then and Now. Be careful with the eBay pumps, I've seen the AC's being offered but they are not the 4441's. They are listed for the 430, but they fit the later 430 and the 462s. The inlet for the true 4441 is at 9 o'clock and the outlet at 6 o'clock when looking from the driver's seat. These others will fit, but their outlet is to a different direction and you must cobble some lines to make it work.
Carl

Howard Prout
04-06-2010, 06:15 AM
Carl: Are the 430 fuel pumps offered on eBay (such as item #310207728717) by z11pacer the appropriate pump? It looks like a Carter 4441 and the ports look to be in the right position. $100 for a new one beats $160 to have one rebuilt in my world.

Can you be more specific as to why the Carter 4441 pump is difficult to rebuild. Is this a task that requires skills beyond a typical shade tree mechanic?

partsetal
04-06-2010, 07:55 AM
Howard,
It is difficult to tell from the angle of the photo, however there is a Carter on now for much less than 100., see 310210404126.
The Carter takes a special kit with unique Carter valves. The disassembly of the pump is difficult, specifically releasing the stem from the arm. There is an extra shield in place in the innerds of the pump that thwarts releasing it. I've struggled with one and gave up. I'm sure there are some who are more experienced in pump rebuilding who would say it's not that difficult. The last one I had, I turned it into a company to rebuild, and the price was twice what they quoted. So, I avoid them.
Carl

Howard Prout
04-06-2010, 10:29 AM
Carl:
Thanks for the info. If you had to give up then so would I. I saw the item on eBay you mentioned and decided not to pursue it. It was rebuilt over 40 years ago. I don't think I would trust the diaphragms, expecially with the current gasoline blends.

Howard Prout
04-06-2010, 12:47 PM
A response from z11pacer says that their pumps are made by Borg Warner and are the same fit as Carter.

tbird430
04-06-2010, 05:24 PM
Bart Como had found some kits & rebuilt them himself, as well.

Try e-mailing him off this site. It might take some time for him to get back with you too, as he sold his 430cid Bird not too long ago, and isn't on this site like he used to be.

-Jon

Howard Prout
04-06-2010, 07:51 PM
Then and Now Automotive (http://www.maritimedragracing.com/th...automotive.htm (http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm) ) do have kits for Carter #4441 fuel pumps @$37.50 each plus S&H. As it turns out, I don't have Carter fuel pumps but something else. I have a couple of boxes that are labelled Niehoff 4441. Niehoff may be the same as Borg Warner - at least I saw one list of affiliated companies that includes Federal Mogul, Niehoff and Borg Warner. The ports on the pumps I have appear to be the same fit as Carter, ie. inlet high at 9 o'clock, outlet low at 6 o'clock. They look the same as the ones z11pacer is selling on eBay for MEL 430 engines. z11pacer says their pumps are made by Borg Warner. So far I haven't been able to find a kit for Borg Warner fuel pumps.

I partially diasassembled one of my fuel pumps and the diaphragms looked OK but possibly stretched a bit.

YellowRose
04-07-2010, 01:49 AM
I left a message on Bart's phone and asked him to check this thread out and see if he can be of any help to you, Howard.

Howard Prout
04-08-2010, 08:45 AM
It seems that rebuilding my stock of fuel pumps is not promising so I plan to buy some new ones. There are a few options. First it appears that the Borg Warner fuel pumps z11pacer has listed on eBay may be 4441. They look the same as the Niehoff 4441 units that I have but are now dysfunctional. Carter 4441 fuel pumps appear to be no longer available. Another option is to go to 4195 fuel pumps as used on '61 - '68 Lincoln 430s. In fact, the fuel pump that was on the car when I bought it looks like a 4195, possibly a Carter. The 4195 style pump rquires a slight modification in the routing of the fuel lines, in and out. Several places have Carter 4195 or equivalent fuel pumps available such as Airtex 6848 and Bosch 68495. AutoZone has the best price I have found for the Airtex pumps at $54.95 while RockAuto has the best price for Carter M4195 at $74.98. Napa has the best price for Bosch 68495 at $104. The Borg Warner 4441 pumps from z11pacer are $99.95 per plus shipping. Any suggestions?

partsetal
04-08-2010, 01:02 PM
Howard, not sure if this will work, but get the cheaper pump and replace the upper body with one that has the correct inlet and outlet orientation. This will only work if both pumps are AC. The valves in the body should just pop out and in.
CArl

bcomo
04-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Howard:

When I rebuilt the pump on my 430, I used the kit from "Then and Now" Rebuilding it was no problem. Keep calling Then and Now. He was a great help.

I also bought a NOS Carter, correct 90 degree inlet and outlet off of EBay --- BUT if you do, and it is truely NOS (been in the box for 50 years), you will have to rebuld that too, since the rubber gasket and check valves are old.

About rebuilding the pump ---

When you replace the inlet, and outlet check valves, you must lightly "Stake" each check valve with a screw driver in three spots so that they don't pop out under pressure. They are press fit into a socket, but some of the original units were not staked, and will pop out of the socket.

The area of greatest concern in the Carter pump is to make sure that the upper gasket can make a good seal. Since there are only two screws in the top to seal the gasket, and the housing is aluminum, you can't really gorilla tighten the screws. Sooooo -- get some sheets of 400 wet or dry sand paper. Lay the sheets on a flat surface, wet the sheets, then lap sand the mating surfaces of both sides of the top of the pump when the rubber gasket mates. Circlular motion is best.

You can use a permanent black magic marker on the mating surfaces before you lap sand. This way you will know when you have a nice flat surface.

This link will give you the instructions for rebuilding A "similar" Carter carburetor. It is not the exact carb, but you can get a very good working knowledge here.

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/15567260


Hope this helps.

Bart

Howard Prout
04-09-2010, 03:29 PM
Great post, Bart. Thanks very much.

Howard Prout
04-14-2010, 08:13 PM
I took the plunge and bought a couple of fuel pumps and now have them in my possession. First, the fuel pumps sold by z11pacer on eBay for the 430 have a 4441 tag on them. z11pacer says they are made by Borg Warner but I have not been able to confirm that. They look exactly the same as the Niehoff 4441 pumps I have. Although z11pacer lists a selling address of NJ, they are shipped from NY and if you have them ship to a NY address, you have to pay NY sales tax.

The Airtex 6848 looks the same as as Carter 4195 to me except that it does not have the third port, which we don't need. The connections are slightly different but nothing major and they are $55 at AutoZone compared to $100 for the 4441 pump from z11pacer.

I bought an in-line fuel pressure gauge so I now I can check the output from my fuel pumps to see how well they are working. My guess is that some of the fuel pumps I thought were no longer working properly may in fact be OK.

I also bought a glass bowl fuel filter ($20 a Mac's) so I can see if there is gas flowing through the lines.