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DKheld
03-26-2009, 10:19 AM
Purists don't look - on the other hand if you don't mind a restomod take a look at the '59 on ebay with a 2003 Tbird motor and 5 speed auto trans. Very nice - that rack and pinion looks a little to high considering the angle on the arms but I would love to drive that car to see how it preforms.

Item number: 290305379565

Eric
registry 5347

GTE427
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
While I lean towards the purist side, that car is cool.

Saw it yesterday and thought of it as a sleeper, with the hood shut, the car looks very original and formal, the way Ford intended 50 years ago.

Open the hood and it's 1959 meets 2009, nice job, I liked it allot, nicely done.

DKheld
03-26-2009, 02:31 PM
I've always leaned toward the "original" side too and went to great lengths not to drill any new holes or make any modifications that could not be reversed when I did my front disc brake conversion. After looking at this car I may change my mind.
I'm putting factory air on my non A/C car so there will be a hole in the firewall that wasn't factory - a Ford authorized dealer could have made that modification - true - but I'll always know it didn't come that way.
Need to rebuild the motor in my car but now am going to make a few calls to some salvage yards and see what Ford engines are out there and at what cost. It's a real pain to do a mod - already I can think of drive shaft length and end issues, how to get the speedo working, temp guage calibration, motor and trans mounts - all that stuff eats up time fast but the reward may be worth it.

RustyNCa
03-26-2009, 02:55 PM
I've always leaned toward the "original" side too and went to great lengths not to drill any new holes or make any modifications that could not be reversed when I did my front disc brake conversion. After looking at this car I may change my mind.
I'm putting factory air on my non A/C car so there will be a hole in the firewall that wasn't factory - a Ford authorized dealer could have made that modification - true - but I'll always know it didn't come that way.
Need to rebuild the motor in my car but now am going to make a few calls to some salvage yards and see what Ford engines are out there and at what cost. It's a real pain to do a mod - already I can think of drive shaft length and end issues, how to get the speedo working, temp guage calibration, motor and trans mounts - all that stuff eats up time fast but the reward may be worth it.

I agree, I think if I was to do it over again.... I would just run a LS1 and 4 speed auto out of a wrecked Camaro or Vette, unless I could get a setup from a CTS-V.

I know :eek: bowtie in the ford, but that stupid LS motor rocks, I have one in my Camaro and that motor is mind blowing.

DKheld
03-26-2009, 03:20 PM
Got a friend who is building a '55 Chevy - he's putting a 429 Ford motor in it "just for grins".

fomoco59
03-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Got a friend who is building a '55 Chevy - he's putting a 429 Ford motor in it "just for grins".


ATTA BOY !!!:D

RustyNCa
03-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Got a friend who is building a '55 Chevy - he's putting a 429 Ford motor in it "just for grins".

Oh, that sounds very kool. That will tick some people off, but way kool, a different take than either the 350 or 454, 572, etc. I keep seeing.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/Icons/shocking-1.jpg

frank58
03-26-2009, 04:38 PM
I had to look.... I must admit it is quite a neat package. HOWEVER...
It does bother me that a car in such great condition was used. Every time a car is "modified" it is one less piece of history gone that can not be replaced. In my opinion (my wife can tell you what thats worth) I would have been a lot more enthused if he took a car that was too far gone for a restoration (plenty left) and kept it alive by modding.
I have a great antique pocket watch, it works but keeps lousy time, I wouldn't tear out the workings and replace them with digital because it would work better.
Just an old mans ramblings.......

bird 60
03-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Hey Guys, look at it this way, If more & more T.B. owners do Mods. obviously there would be less originals. Thus the popularity would increase & so should the price. Even though my '60 is not all original but fully restored I have LAMBSWOOL seat covers,ELECTRIC fuel pump SPORTS air filter WIRE wheels, T.B. EMBLEMS on the front guards & on the rocker covers. Seeing that I'm lover of Chrome one day I might break down & put PORT WINDOWS & the '59 DOOR SPEARS. Even though she looks beautiful now the way it is, what the heck, I'm 3 months of turning 63 & would love to see her looking like that.:cool:

Chris

JohnG
03-26-2009, 08:21 PM
maybe the builder is ahead of his time....

For sake of discussion, suppose it is the year 2019 and you live in CA with your meticulously restored Squarebird. The only way you can get it legally on the road is to have a rebuilt motor, fuel injection, catalytic converters, EGRs, computer controlled ignition and so on. Maybe disk brakes. We won't go into airbags.

What do you do?

DKheld
03-26-2009, 09:52 PM
I can relate to frank58 about nice originals not being used for mods - I remember one of the first restomods I saw was a Model A with "juice brakes" figured it just might as well be melted down and used for scrap.
I've changed over the years and now am just glad to see older cars on the road original or mods. It is true that if you have an engine rebuilt these days the shops usually install hardened valves and seats at the very least so even those going for originality get a bit of a restomod unless they try really hard to re-create the OE.
I know we're all different when it comes to mods - was just curious what others had to say about them. John is probably right about 2019 - we'll all need to drive restomods or electric birds - you've probably heard about them already - they are called Hy-Birds (ha ha).

Rusty - that is exactly the look I had when I saw that new Tbird engine in that '59 - how did you get that pic of me?

Eric

dgs
03-26-2009, 09:56 PM
...It does bother me that a car in such great condition was used ...

I have to say, I felt a little of the same thing. A 60K mile nice straight Squarebird should have been kept that way. On the other hand, man that's a nice job. The engine almost, almost looks like it belongs there. I wish he had written more about it. Where's he engine come out of? That engine cover looks like the last of the 4 seat Tbirds, but they quit making them in '97, I think, and he called the engine a 2003. What Ford, besides the Mustang, had a V8 and RWD in 2003? Maybe Grand Marquis?

More shots of the rack and pinion setup would have been nice too. It almost looked like it still had drums up front, but hard to tell from those shots.

JohnG
03-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Hy-Birds . . . you heard it here first!!!;)

The yellow car with the 2003 looks terrific; gotta admit it.
Certainly a good piece of work to adapt a newer motor to the car but I have to wonder if the work was worth it. The 352 is hardly a weak spot. Tranny, brakes, cooling are places the original stuff is found wanting but the basic motor, if rebuilt, is pretty good. Doubt he did it for emissions. Thank god he did not put a small block Chevy in it!

I will admit to being dubious about any car of that age that has a claimed 60,000 miles. First, there is no way to substantiate it. Secondly that is only about 1200 miles per year. Most Squarebirds coming out of Detroit in 1959 had that many miles by 1965. Maybe this was the odd one that did not...close examination of other components would tell.

If I am driving the Squarebird in 2019, I will probably be glad to be doing so no matter what is under the hood. The overall car is what is unique and special. As long as something can continue to propel it around, few people will really care. (A recent episode of Car Crazy went to some show focusing on 30s Fords. One guy had a Lexus in his hot rod. Of course he was a retired VP of Lexus so he may have gotten a price break....)

john

bird 60
03-27-2009, 01:25 AM
Hi John, I forgot to mention I'm from the land of OZ, even if I wanted to make those changes I couldn't unless I convert to RIGHT HAND DRIVE, & I don't intend to. The LAW here in South Australia doesn't allow modifications. I think those few minor things were done awhile back before the current LAWS. Mine was a rotisarie resto. 12 years ago & still looks like new. Will send photos soon.
By the way what's happening in 2019?

Chris..... South Australia

fomoco59
03-27-2009, 08:37 AM
It's a pretty car, I like that Casino Cream. That's an '03 Tbird motor. 3.9 V8, 280HP and looks like this: http://www.netlook.com/auto/USGAATL/pic/11986781/AT10626672-800px-p13.jpg?dt=20090309 (http://www.netlook.com/auto/USGAATL/pic/11986781/AT10626672-800px-p13.jpg?dt=20090309)

And here's his...:

http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/3c/c2/30ec_3.JPG

JohnG
03-27-2009, 09:34 AM
hi Chris

the 2019 reference is purely hypothetical, for sake of discussion. That said, CA has serious air quality concerns and is often the first state to implement substantially tougher requirements (this is currently happening with diesel emissions). What they will allow on the road 10 years from now is anyone's guess. Whether they will target niche groups such as classic cars is anyone's guess.

So if it came to that, one would have to decide: modify it or park it.

Or, as Jay Leno is prone to say "what's the socially responsible approach?" (he has a tad more money than any of us to modify his cars, not to mention a staff to do it).

john

tarps3
03-27-2009, 10:35 AM
you move as far away from California as you can possibly get -- that's the solution :D




For sake of discussion, suppose it is the year 2019 and you live in CA with your meticulously restored Squarebird. The only way you can get it legally on the road is to have a rebuilt motor, fuel injection, catalytic converters, EGRs, computer controlled ignition and so on. Maybe disk brakes. We won't go into airbags.

What do you do?

RustyNCa
03-27-2009, 10:44 AM
hi Chris

the 2019 reference is purely hypothetical, for sake of discussion. That said, CA has serious air quality concerns and is often the first state to implement substantially tougher requirements (this is currently happening with diesel emissions). What they will allow on the road 10 years from now is anyone's guess. Whether they will target niche groups such as classic cars is anyone's guess.

john

Well, I have been told that any diesel newer than 1998 will have to pass CA emissions in 2010. My friend that is smog licensed here told me, they don't know what those emissions laws will be, but they will be in effect by 2010.

On a side note, the big diesels in CA have to meet a law by I think it is 2012. A couple of my clients have told me, most of their fleets won't meet those rules and most likely will be junked. One company I work with is holding on to over 800k to meet those laws. That means they have to replace their skidders, cats, tractors, water trucks, cement haulers, etc. either drive train systems or the entire thing.

The single owner truckers are just running their trucks till CA says it's not legal any longer, and plan to quit and go work for someone else...

Also there is a second law in I think they said 2018 that makes it even more stringent on them.

Guess there is a retrograde that runs about 15k to 20k that makes the rig meet the 2012 law but won't pass the 2018 one.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/Icons/card11513_fr.jpg

scumdog
03-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Hi John, I forgot to mention I'm from the land of OZ, even if I wanted to make those changes I couldn't unless I convert to RIGHT HAND DRIVE, & I don't intend to. The LAW here in South Australia doesn't allow modifications. I think those few minor things were done awhile back before the current LAWS. Mine was a rotisarie resto. 12 years ago & still looks like new. Will send photos soon.
By the way what's happening in 2019?

Chris..... South Australia

Whereas us 'Kiwis' can fit anything we want from a flathead V8 to a Cummings diesel in our T-bird and leave it left-hand steer if we wanted to here in New Zealand!

(Although I HAVE seen a right-hand conversion done on a Bullet-bird rag-top - and it was done with a Mitsubishi rack-and-pinion!!)

tbirds8
03-27-2009, 07:32 PM
That looks like it came from the factory like that. Great job. I think the gov. is going to put the little guy right out of buss. I have a 98 cat that I drive every day and I'm waiting for somebody to shut me down because it doesn't pass some simple A-- test. I think I'll stop now! (I could go on and on) O and run far and fast from Cal. It's going to fall off

byersmtrco
03-27-2009, 10:43 PM
Now THATS what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! Whoa !!!! That is totally cool!!!
Looks box stock on the outside . . . Partially up to date undernieth !!!!

Next step for that fine ride would be . . . 4 wheel (yes FOUR) disc brakes !!! And big ol fatty sway bars front & rear.

The only thing I don't like is the floor shifter (prob no other choice though). I'd have (tried) to find a way to make the column shift work . . . But on the other hand, you wouldn't have to deal with detent plates and shift bowls and all that junk wearing out every other week. (Ok well every few years)

Husky35
03-27-2009, 10:57 PM
Did anyone notice the rack& pinion he put on? I'd really like to know what was done and what he used. I want one!!!!

protourbird
03-28-2009, 09:52 AM
Rack & pinion? I want information on that one also

Dan Leavens
03-28-2009, 10:58 AM
I think this owner had a good idea in bringing the old school lines of the classic, with new school technology. I would also like to know how it handles with the R&P:eek: and what the turning radius is:D

byersmtrco
03-28-2009, 02:42 PM
What ??!! Don't you like the 7,000,000 turns lock to lock ?

R&P !! That would just be tight !!

Dan Leavens
03-28-2009, 08:02 PM
John the 7,000,000 lock to lock was way back in the late 50's when there weren't that many cars on the road. Now with all the vehicles around you more or less have to start the turn 5 minutes before you thought about it:eek:

bird 60
03-29-2009, 04:05 AM
Thanks for enlightening me on the proposed expectation that's to take place in the year 2019. Personally I think our cars will be O.K.;) The Governments of the World have to realize that the Automotive Industry & it's History play a very big roll for the Vintage & Veteran Hot-Rod & Classic cars of bygone years. Look at the amount of Participants & Spectators that go to venues as such. Not only the young but all ages & that includes Male as well as Female.
It's the AMERICAN way of life, the AUSTRALIAN, CANADIAN,
BRITISH, NEW ZEALAND etc..etc..etc. It would be just as bad as abandoning all the Old Movies shown on T.V.of that Era. I'm a positive person & I think it'll be O.K.:)

Chris.... Adelaide Sth. OZ

Husky35
04-01-2009, 07:33 PM
I called Jerry (owner of the restomod). He says that the entire drivetrain came from a 2003 Licoln LS. I was interested in the rack that he put in. He says that the rack was too long and had to have the threaded ends shortened and rethreaded, but he had to put the rack in because he didnt have clearance for the gearbox. He said I probably could find another rack that would fit a little better. He made the mount himself. Said it took about a year to work through all of the problems with the motor and trans electronics. Very nice gentleman and the car sounds awesome. We'll see if I have the pocketbook to try the same thing!

byersmtrco
04-01-2009, 10:20 PM
Truthfully, it's a good concept. But why complicate things. As Scotty (StarTrek) would say "The more they take up the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain"

Going to late model FI etc requires a computer. Same with the late model tranny's.

There are other carbureted late model motors that will work. For a car as big & heavy as a TBird, the 390 is actually on of the best choices. While antiquated(Spell check), it's a good overall design. An Edelbrock intake manif (and carb), headers and a late model elec ign dist, it would be a bulletproof little or no maint engine.
Combine that with a 4 spd Ovdrv transmission (There is now an AOD avai for FE config) Or even a C6 with the correct rear end ratio, you have a great running road car.
Add the rack & pinion steering, 4 whl disc brakes and new springs and beefy sway bars and you have a great handling car too.

byersmtrco
04-01-2009, 10:51 PM
Truthfully, it's a good concept. But why complicate things. As Scotty (StarTrek) would say "The more they take up the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain"

Going to late model FI etc requires a computer. Same with the late model tranny's.

There are other carbureted late model motors that will work. For a car as big & heavy as a TBird, the 390 is actually on of the best choices. While antiquated(Spell check), it's a good overall design. An Edelbrock intake manif (and carb), headers and a late model elec ign dist, it would be a bulletproof little or no maint engine.
Combine that with a 4 spd Ovdrv transmission (There is now an AOD avai for FE config) Or even a C6 with the correct rear end ratio, you have a great running road car.
Add the rack & pinion steering, 4 whl disc brakes and new springs and beefy sway bars and you have a great handling car too.

Misquote;
"The more they OVERTHINK the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain"