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Howard Prout
02-16-2009, 04:28 PM
I was all set to order a Dearborn Classics fan shroud for my '59 430 and then it occurred to me that the comments and articles I have seen are for '60 430s, not '59 430s. My concern is that with the overflow resevoir on my '59 running lengthwise with the engine rather than crosswise per the '60 430s, there may not be enough room for a fan shroud. Has anyone successfully installed a Dearborn Classics fan shroud on a '59 430?

YellowRose
02-16-2009, 05:02 PM
Hi Howard,

I understand your concern regarding whether or not the Dearborn Classics fan shroud will fit on a '59 with a 430 engine. Here is a link to the Dearborn site about it.

http://www.dearbornclassics.com/cgi-bin/more_info.cgi?part_number=fs12

Notice that the 430 engine is not listed as being one of those engines it fits on. Dearborn should be able to tell you if it will fit or not. So should some of our members who own 430's and have tried the Dearborn version or the original metal ones.

Some members have not bought the Dearborn shroud because it is not made of metal and there was a concern it might give to much being made of fiberglass, or be adversely effected by the heat. So they went looking for the original metal ones. I have one on my Tbird 352 that came off a '63 Galaxie. bcomo has one that he was going to put on his 430, but I think it is available. We found ours off of eBay. Here is some information on the FE engine sizes used in the '63 Galaxy.

352 in3 (5.8 L) FE series (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine) V8 (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/V8)
390 in3 (6.4 L) FE series (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine) V8 (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/V8)
406 in3 (6.6 L) FE series (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine) V8 (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/V8)
427 in3 (7.0 L) FE series (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine) V8 (http://www.squarebirds.org/wiki/V8)

Here is some information on one from Concours Parts.

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000051b~Z5Z5Z5AAFNJ~ P199.95~~~~~~~F (http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta%7Edyndetail%7EZ5Z5Z50000051b%7EZ5Z5Z5 AAFNJ%7EP199.95%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7EF)

I just talked with Bart bcomo about his metal fan shroud. He tells me that it WILL fit Tbirds with 430 engines, as they have the same sized radiator, and it will NOT be adversely effected by the position of the overflow tank. His metal fan shroud has no rust, is in great shape, painted and ready to go. He just never go around to installing it and probably will not now. You will have to relocate the support tabs on the bottom to different locations for proper mounting, as my mechanic had to do. Also, be very careful drilling the radiator for the top supports. If you drill to deeply, you will puncture the radiator. If you are interested in his fan shroud, PM him. I think it is Tbird430 who has one on his 430 Tbird and it works well. A five or six bladed fan is something else you will want to have. Or some have installed an electric fan.

I hope this is of help to you.

tbird430
02-17-2009, 04:46 PM
I had posted the 430cid metal fan shroud info on here yesterday on another subject. Here is the link: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=28641#post28641 I'm the last reply. In short, yes the metal orginal fan shroud off a 1960-63 Galaxie/Fairlane or Mercury Montaray (with 352-390) will work with some slight mods.

I really sounds like you have an incorrect 352cid overflow tank on your T-Bird. :cool:

-Jon

Howard Prout
02-17-2009, 07:39 PM
Thanks for the info, Jon. I'm quite sure it is the right expansion tank for a '59 430 - it is consistent with Fig. 9, p. 1-53 in the 1959 Thunderbird Shop Manual. I think the orientation of the expansion tank is one of the differences between the 1959s and 1960s.

GTE427
02-18-2009, 10:07 AM
Howard

The expansion tank on the 59 and 60 430 engine are the same. I haven't look at the diagram you've referenced, so I can't speak for that. However, the 430 expansion tank is lengthwise from front to back in order to clear the fuel pump and the oil fill spout. If yours is mounted opposite, you're either missing the fuel pump and oil fill or the engine in your car is not a 430. A quick check for a 430 vs an FE ( 352 family) is the fuel pump location. Lower front driver side is the pump location for an FE engine, top front center on the 430 engine. A picture of the top front of your engine would help to clear this up.

Howard Prout
02-18-2009, 01:19 PM
Oops! I guess I was thinking about the 352s rather than the '60 430s. Anyway, my expansion tank sits lengthwise with the engine as you suggest and as illustrated in the Shop Manual.

JohnG
02-19-2009, 07:48 AM
Jon: how long (short, actually) did you drill into the top of the radiator to mount the top half of the shroud?? This seems tricky for the obvious reason if you go too deep you
open up the radiator. I have a Galaxie shroud and have been leery of trying this part. What did you use for bolts? Self tapping? Any details appreciated.

Howard: if you find a used expansion tank, don't just bolt it on. These things are notorious for leaking. Take it to a radiator shop and get it pressure tested and repaired as needed. This is a weak point in the cooling system. I copied Alexander's photo of his so you could see the expansion tank.


http://squarebirds.fortunecity.com/Technical/radiator-without-shroud.jpg
John

YellowRose
02-19-2009, 10:27 AM
Hi John,

I will give you the answer I got from my mechanic when he put my Ford Galaxy fan shroud on. He used a short drill bit, and drilling slowly and carefully, pulled out as soon as he broke through the metal. He said there is actually a lot more space between that top and the top of the radiator, but they were careful that they did not go deep. Just enough to break through. Then they used two small self tapping screws to secure it tightly to the radiator top.

GTE427
02-19-2009, 11:42 AM
I would suggest a piece a small hose or tube, cut and slipped over your drill bit to expose the drill bit tip the depth you're wanting to drill. This will act as a built in stop so the bit dosen't bite into the radiator if you have to much pressure behind the drill.

tbird430
02-19-2009, 12:04 PM
I did what Ken said above, I slipped some 3/8" fuel hose over my drill bit. I left about a 1/16" then started drilling....:cool:

JohnG
02-22-2009, 12:18 PM
Thanks, guys! I have had the darned shroud for about 2 years and keep putting off installing it due to fear of screwing things up! (imagined trip to radiator shop: "so what's wrong with your radiator?" ... "not much except I seem to have drilled a hole in the top of it" ... "Oh... well, your stupidity is our profit. Thanks!" Alexander actually had that experience. )

John

Howard Prout
03-05-2009, 05:15 PM
I'm not sure what my shroud came out of but I bought it from Bart Como and I think he said it was from a '63 Galaxie. It had exactly the same dimesnions as the one discussed in the forum article on 58-60 fan shrouds. It may be that the bolt spacing on the bottom of the rad and A/C condensor is wider than some others. Any way I removed the brackets from the bottom of the shroud by drilling out the welds, cut a couple of pieces of 14 ga. steel (3/4" x 3") and welded them top the bottom of the shroud and then welded the brackets to the new steel pieces. To get the 22 3/16" spacing between the brackets to fit the mounting holes for my rad and A/C condensor, the brackets had to be positioned at the very outside edges of the shroud (see attached). I then painted over the new welds, etc. now I have to try to put it in place. I spent a few minutes this afternoon trying to find a way to get it in position with no luck. The power steering pump is in the way when trying from the left side and the generator is in the way from the right side. My guess is that I will end up undoing the bolts that hold the power steering pump to its mounting bracket so I can get the shroud past it.

Howard Prout
03-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Old Betsy now has a fan shroud. The installation was not exactly a snap but not all that bad. I decided the best way to attack this project was to remove the radiator, no sweat. In went the shroud, in went the radiator. But when I went to instal the bolts through the bottom brackets I discovered the slots in the shroud weren't deep enough. It was then that I remembered that at some point in Betsy's past (before our time), she had been hit quite hard in the front. My guess is that when it was repaired they put a new cross member in and it didn't have any holes for the radiator support so they drilled new ones through both the rad support and the cross member. It is a mystery why they didn't use the existing holes in the rad support, but they didn't. So out came the radiator, out came the shroud and I made the slots deeper. The I put the lower half of the shroud back in, then the rad, then put the bolts in through the elongated slots in the brackets. Then I bolted the top half of the shroud to the lower half and now the top of the shroud was about a half inch above the top of the radiator frame. So I had to bend the lower brackets a bit to lower the shroud. Then it was just a matter of drilling holes in the top of the radiator from and attaching the shroud to the radiator frame with sheet metal screws - carefully measured so as not to pierce the radiator core. The trick of putting a piece of rubber hose over a drill bit to limit the depth of cut works is very clever and works great! So now she is back together and ready to go again. I won't know how well the shroud works until mid summer when it is hot and humid and I'm stuck in traffic. It is quite cool here today (about 40F) so after 10-15 minutes idling in the garage the temp gauge only went up to the bottom of the 'M' which is where the thermostat opens. Now on to the next project - removing the current vacuum pump from the bottom of the oil pump and replacing it with the one I rebuilt over the winter. That is Tuesday's challenge.

YellowRose
03-07-2009, 06:22 PM
Hi Howard,

Thanks for posting how you did that! That might be of great help to someone else with a 430 that wants to add the fan shroud in the future. It sounds like it went well for you and I am sure it is going to work much better in cooling that engine. You will find out later on in the year, but you should not have a problem with overheating now.

tbird430
03-09-2009, 12:39 PM
Doesn't that new metal fan shroud tiddy things up a bit under the hood? ;) I know mine sure changed things, plus it made it somewhat safe to tinker under the hood with that shroud around a moving fan blade!! :cool:

-Jon

fomoco59
03-16-2009, 10:05 AM
Saw this '60 car on EB*y this morning, 430 with a fan shroud ?

http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/3a/63/c662_1.JPG

KULTULZ
03-16-2009, 12:23 PM
That shroud appears to be from a seventies application. I notice he has removed the surge tank also. Bad idea.

These shrouds have Casting I.D. Nos. on them. It can be used to ID the origional application. It is designed for a cross-flow radiator.

Looks nice to me.

tbird430
03-17-2009, 04:18 PM
That doesn't even appear to me to be the correct radiator for that Squarebird! Look at the trans cooler line on the left side (turing down). :rolleyes:

-Jon

Howard Prout
04-01-2009, 05:26 PM
Do those of you who have fan shrouds put "Caution" decals on them?

tbird430
04-02-2009, 11:52 AM
I did not, but I know a few of us have used the decal from the 1961-63 generation T-Birds. :cool: