PDA

View Full Version : 430cid Woes (Part II).


tbird430
07-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Well here are some pics of my coolant leak source. Again this is the #2 cylinder lower exhaust bolt (passenger side). I used 400 degree High Temp Thread sealer from Permatex.
In 72 hours we will know if it worked. :o

The 1st pic here was taken with the camera flash off & a flash light trying to illuminated the said lower exhaust bolt.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/Leak.jpg

In the following pics I had the camera flash "on". In the 1st pic, u can see the said bolt just above the steering linkage (That shinny blur running horizontal across the bottom of the pic).

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/Leak2.jpg


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/Leak3.jpg

This may be the better pic (I guessed on the aim of the camera). Here I raised the camera above the steering linkage/idler arm. There is a drip of coolant coming out in this picture as well...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/Leak4.jpg

After I removed the bolt, there was a VERY steady stream of coolant pouring out. I had to reinstall the bolt and drain the coolant level down to continue. WOW!! :eek:

Anyways like I said earlier, Thursday night I'll add the coolant back and cross my fingers.

Let's pray it works guys.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/EngineDONE.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/EngineDONE2.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/EngineDone3.jpg

bcomo
07-17-2008, 12:32 AM
I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Bob M
07-17-2008, 04:18 PM
So it sounds like the bolt screws into the water passage inside the block,is this what you are thinking and is this what it should do.
The motor looks great in your car,hope all works out good.
Bob M

tbird430
07-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Yes Bob, the bolt must screw into a water passage in the HEAD as "Kultulz" mentioned. I'll keep everyone up to date after I start the car again..... :cool:

bcomo
07-17-2008, 09:30 PM
So, I'm trying to figure out here.

Is this an accidental thing that the one particular bolts has gone into the water jacket?

Or is it that Ford drilled all of the bottom manifold bolts into the water jacket, and then didn't say anything in the 60 430 shop manual about putting sealer on those bolts?

Which do you think -- accident, or on purpose?

KULTULZ
07-18-2008, 05:17 AM
So, I'm trying to figure out here.

Is this an accidental thing that the one particular bolts has gone into the water jacket?

Or is it that Ford drilled all of the bottom manifold bolts into the water jacket, and then didn't say anything in the 60 430 shop manual about putting sealer on those bolts?

Which do you think -- accident, or on purpose?

Exactly what does the BIRD manual say under Removal And Installation of Exhaust Manifolds In The Car? I can't believe they left this detail out as FORD techs would have been less familiar with the engine than the LINC-MERC techs of the period.

KULTULZ
07-18-2008, 05:26 AM
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/1960%20Thunderbird/EngineDone3.jpg

Please forgive my rudeness as I failed to comment previously. You have a very nicely detailed engine compartment. Beautiful work...

Bob M
07-18-2008, 10:25 AM
This picture is in the 1959 shop manual it is a 352 would it be the same block as your motor. It looks like the exahust manifold bolts do not go into the water jacket.
Bob M

bcomo
07-18-2008, 01:08 PM
Jon: As I told you privately -- your engine looks REALLY great, and I hope that the sealer fixes this problem.

Bob: The 60 shop manual shows the same sectional photo of the 352, but not for the 430. And as Kultulz said, it is a unique engine, so who knows.

Kultulz: The 60 shop manual does not have a specific section on remove/replace the exhaust manifold itself. It is only referred to in the section on head removal (page 1-55).

Under Cylinder Heads:
#5. Coat the mating surfaces of the exhaust manifold with a light film of graphite grease .....

#6. Position the exhaust manifold and heat shield on the cylinder head and install the retaining bolts and tab washers. Tighten the retaining bolts to specifications, working from the center to the ends. Lock the bolts by bending one tab of the washer over a flat on the bolt.

#7. Install the spark plugs.

I wonder if there could have been a later tech bulletin to the shop manual that adressed this situation, or called for sealant on the bolt threads?

I guess that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

KULTULZ
07-18-2008, 02:09 PM
Kultulz: The 60 shop manual does not have a specific section on remove/replace the exhaust manifold itself. It is only referred to in the section on head removal (page 1-55).

Under Cylinder Heads:

#5. Coat the mating surfaces of the exhaust manifold with a light film of graphite grease .....

#6. Position the exhaust manifold and heat shield on the cylinder head and install the retaining bolts and tab washers. Tighten the retaining bolts to specifications, working from the center to the ends. Lock the bolts by bending one tab of the washer over a flat on the bolt.

#7. Install the spark plugs.

I wonder if there could have been a later tech bulletin to the shop manual that adressed this situation, or called for sealant on the bolt threads?

I guess that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

The manual you have may be an early edition and left out that step (1959 430's were rare but does not explain the missing information). Surely there would have been a TSB (I have the LINC-MERC 1958 TSB's) or an upgraded manual. Can you imagine the number of 430's that may have went out the door serviced incorrectly?

And while the 352 (FE) and 430 (MEL) are somewhat similiar in appearance and have some parts interchangeability, they are two completely different animals.

bcomo
07-18-2008, 02:54 PM
The manual you have may be an early edition and left out that step (1959 430's were rare but does not explain the missing information). Surely there would have been a TSB (I have the LINC-MERC 1958 TSB's) or an upgraded manual. Can you imagine the number of 430's that may have went out the door serviced incorrectly?

An early edition could be a possibilty.

The bottom left of the index page on my 60 Shop Manual says "First Printing - 1959 Ford Motor Company, Dearborn, Michigan"

Is there someone with a 60 shop Manual that might show a latter edition? Jon -- How about your manual?

tbird430
07-19-2008, 10:13 AM
I'll check Bart. My is not an original, but a reproduction though. I can also say Bart that it reads just like urs did, only mentioning the installation, graphite grease, & tightening sequence, etc...

Thanks for the compliment as well "Kultulz".

tbird430
07-19-2008, 06:05 PM
My 1960 reproduction service manual says "First Printing -copywrite 1959 Ford Motor Company".

tbird430
07-24-2008, 01:29 PM
IT'S ALIVE!!!!

Well the 'ol 1960 430cid fired up again last night, and my Thunderbird rolled out of my parents garage!!! :) I put about 20 miles on the odometer then raced back to their house. No leaks anywhere last night, and none found this AM!!! I think we fixed her guys!!! :) After those 20 miles and one little tire squall, the thermal laser gun showed 202 degrees at idle on the rear intake temp sender, 200-202 at the thermostat housing, 189-209 top radiator hose, and 178-185 at the lower radiator hose. I feel those are safe #'s since it was 103 degrees here yesterday, but I also feel I will try and save up for a fan shroud anyways. The cooler the better...:cool:

Thanks for all the help Kultulz, Bcomo, etc. I could not have done it without ur help and this website. Like I told my father last night, if I wasn't a member on here we would probably have had a cylinder head pulled off again & been picking our brains to death.:rolleyes:

I think me & the wifey will try that Thursday night cruise up to that 1960's Drive-in were an Elvis impersonator performs until 9PM. The more I drive her the better I think it will be (before Aug.9th car show/cruise out of town).

-Jon R.

KULTULZ
07-24-2008, 04:11 PM
No use having it if you cannot enjoy it... http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbup.gif

bcomo
07-24-2008, 05:47 PM
Good to hear it Jon.