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430bird60
09-19-2017, 03:35 PM
I recently purchased Centric riveted brake shoes from Rock Auto. As I was installing them I noticed that the rivets on the front shoes were closer to the surface than the rivets on the back shoes. I measured the thickness on the shoes and found the front shoe to be about 5/32 and the back shoe to be about 7/32. I then measured the rivet depth from the surface of the shoes. The front shoes measured 1/32 and the back 3/32. These measurements are from a set not front axle and rear axle. I am really concerned about that 1/32 measurement and how much braking until the drums need turning. Anyone know if these shoes are defective based on my measurements or are they normal for new shoes? Thanks

Ken

jopizz
09-19-2017, 04:27 PM
I wouldn't say they are defective but not all shoes are created equal. I tend to stick with Wagner or Raybestos when it comes to brake shoes or pads. I would call and tell them your concerns and see what they say. If you're not comfortable with the amount of lining then don't install them. Most of the wear is probably going to be on the back shoe so maybe that's why it's thicker. I've never had an issue with Rockauto when returning parts if you want to try another brand.

John

bird 60
09-19-2017, 09:19 PM
Hi John, I was always under the impression that the "front'' shoes would wear out first, as they take more of the brunt.

Chris......From OZ.

jopizz
09-19-2017, 09:27 PM
Hi John, I was always under the impression that the "front'' shoes would wear out first, as they take more of the brunt.

Chris......From OZ.

The secondary shoe (rear) is longer and seems to take the brunt of the force in my experience. I could be wrong.

John

Deanj
09-20-2017, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't say they are defective but not all shoes are created equal. I tend to stick with Wagner or Raybestos when it comes to brake shoes or pads.
John

I can't speak about drums and shoes, but Centric seems to sell quality parts. I like their rotors because they paint or powder coat the hat on the rotor. Their pads are positive molded.

I'd had planned on buying Centric, but I'll switch if Wagner and Raybestos has a superior brake shoe.

Dean

simplyconnected
09-20-2017, 12:43 PM
This business of 'brake shoes' is tricky. I've seen many combinations over the years.

Primary and Secondary shoes are normally identified by 'PRI' or 'SEC' but not always Some are made of different materials (hardness) which are different in color. Some are longer than the other but not always.

The front shoe requires less pressure, to produce the same braking power as the rear. In other words, the drum rotation 'helps apply' pressure to the front shoe. The easiest way I can explain this is by citing hand brakes on a bicycle or motorcycle. A light pressure on the front brake does far more braking then a lot of pressure on the rear brake.

Bottom line: This is a system that brake companies engineered to balance braking power. Shoes MUST be installed correctly according to the Shop Manual and the manufacturer's instructions.

BTW, my personal preference is, bonded brakes. I've always had good luck with them but I 'stay on top' of the lining or pad wear. I also choose the softest material I can find. It wears out faster but also stops easier without chatter. - Dave

Tbird6
09-21-2017, 03:53 PM
Another vote to ditch the rivets and go with bonded brake shoes.
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simplyconnected
09-21-2017, 04:05 PM
Another vote to ditch the rivets and go with bonded brake shoes...As long as there is lining left on the shoe, I don't think it matters if you have bonded or riveted (except in the Rust Belt).

I have to confess, I know of a Dodge car in the family that sat for many months. When they fired it up, one of the rear brake linings came off the shoe from rust. It was bonded.

That lining jammed the rear wheel right in the driveway. It could have been much worse. I've never seen a riveted lining come off the shoe from rust or otherwise. Again, I stay on top to prevent problems. - Dave

partsetal
09-22-2017, 08:08 AM
At a Bendix brake seminar that I attended many years ago, I remember the presenter explaining that the bonded lining, because of the high heat process and adhesives needed to bond the lining material to the steel shoe, had to be made of denser materials. The bonded lining did not have a friction coefficient as high as the material used in the riveted lining. To get the best performance from my brakes I've always chosen riveted, the same as installed in production.
Carl

Tbird6
09-22-2017, 11:39 AM
That's great for 1959!
What modern car or truck use riveted shoes?
I give you a clue? NONE!

I do lots of old car work and no re-builder will warranty riveted shoes only bonded ones.
In fact the outfit I now use will install rivets in addition to bonding the linings but it's only for looks and to match original.

Rivets were ONLY used when the linings needed to be replaced in the field using basic hand tools. Those days are long gone!
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jopizz
09-22-2017, 12:09 PM
You can still buy riveted brake shoes for modern cars that have rear drum brakes. My 1995 Camaro has rear drum brakes and I just put new riveted shoes on.

John

bird 60
09-22-2017, 08:04 PM
What are we referring to as modern cars? Your Camaro is 22 years old john, & probably old stock linings.:)

Chris.....From OZ.

jopizz
09-22-2017, 08:09 PM
Many modern cars (2000-up) come with rear drum brakes and riveted shoes are readily available from AC Delco, Raybestos, Wagner, etc. The shoes on my Camaro fit cars up to 2003. I would call that modern.

John

430bird60
09-25-2017, 04:19 PM
I was not able to talk to a real person at Rock Auto so I went to their website and was able to obtain a return lable for the centrix shoes I purchased from them. Hope they will refund my money. These are the shoes that I measured the rivet depth to be 1/32 inch on the front shoe of a set. Ironically, I was looking in my 60 shop manual this morning and it says: A brake shoe should be relined when the lining face is worn to within 1/32 inch of any rivet head or when the lining has been soaked with oil or grease. I guess I am not totally nuts ,yet. While I was looking in the manual I noticed a spring which attaches from one shoe to the other on the front brake assembly. It runs just below the wheel cylinder and above the spindle. My car does not have that spring on either side. Anyone know if this spring is necessary? The brakes worked fine prior to the car being set up on blocks. Thanks

Ken

jopizz
09-25-2017, 04:43 PM
While I was looking in the manual I noticed a spring which attaches from one shoe to the other on the front brake assembly. It runs just below the wheel cylinder and above the spindle. My car does not have that spring on either side. Anyone know if this spring is necessary? The brakes worked fine prior to the car being set up on blocks. Thanks

Ken

Most times that spring is either broken or was thrown away years earlier. I've never had an issue going without it.

John

partsetal
09-25-2017, 04:54 PM
The shoe to shoe spring is not available from the major suppliers of brake hardware, but your Thunderbird dealer should stock them.
\Carl