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Infinite Monkeys
09-01-2017, 10:54 PM
Sitting for 20 years has taken it's tole on many of the seals.

Right now I have a huge steering fluid leak. Looks like it's coming from the end of the ram and the control valve.

The control valve appears to be "new". Looks like it was replaced shortly before the car was parked.
The steering system is working properly, just leaking a lot.

I'm going to rebuild the ram and the control valve. Seems this site has everything I'll need.

http://www.dearbornclassics.com/steering/power-steering-valves-cylinders-and-related.html

The question is, what should I expect when I take the control valve and the ram apart.
I think the ram should be straight forward, I'm concerned about taking the control valve apart.

Any thoughts on these procedures is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

jopizz
09-01-2017, 11:13 PM
I've had poor results lately rebuilding the control valve. The new seals don't seem to be up to the standard of the originals. On the last one I had I tried twice before I wound up sending it away to be rebuilt. If you want to give it a try just follow the instructions in the shop manual. As for the ram you shouldn't have any issues. Getting all the old parts out is the hardest part.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-01-2017, 11:19 PM
There's a place called steer and gear that does the valve rebuilding for Mac's. I talked to them a while ago, they seemed really helpful and knowledgeable.

Think I'll get the valve rebuild kit from them. Then hopefully I'll get a quality kit.

Anything tricky about the valve rebuild?
Thanks.

jopizz
09-01-2017, 11:52 PM
There's nothing tricky about it. Just make sure the cylinder and spool valve are in good condition and not scored.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 12:12 AM
There's nothing tricky about it. Just make sure the cylinder and spool valve are in good condition and not scored.

John

I think the insides of the valve at least should be good. The valve appears to be basically new. The cylinder looks to be well worn. I'll see when I open them up.

Thanks again.

Tbird1044
09-02-2017, 12:17 AM
I'd be willing to bet, that back in the day, if you took your new TBird back to the dealer for warranty work, and told them the P/S was leaking, they would probably say that's normal. ;-)
Nyles

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 09:08 AM
I'd be willing to bet, that back in the day, if you took your new TBird back to the dealer for warranty work, and told them the P/S was leaking, they would probably say that's normal. ;-)
Nyles

Don't know if this is a common issue here. Mine is now almost spraying out fluid. It didn't have a leak a few weeks ago when I first started it.
It'd be nice to drive it more than a few miles at a time and then not have to park it for a week or two to fix something.
Soon!!

Deanj
09-02-2017, 11:19 AM
I recall servicing the control valve as an easier task than a remove and install procedure. The guts can come out while on the car (take photos of the order of the parts). Pulling the pitman arm is a bugger, and so go the obvious route first.

Dean

jopizz
09-02-2017, 11:54 AM
I recall servicing the control valve as an easier task than a remove and install procedure. The guts can come out while on the car (take photos of the order of the parts). Pulling the pitman arm is a bugger, and so go the obvious route first.

Dean

Dean is correct. You can remove the spool part from the rest of the valve and put in new seals without removing the entire control valve from the pitman arm.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 02:28 PM
I just logged on to ask for help in pulling the pitman arm. Yeah, it ain't coming off. I was about to use a torch, but thought I'd ask first.

Should I start the disassembly of the valve from the front, or back, or just start taking it apart and it'll be obvious as I go?

Thanks.

jopizz
09-02-2017, 02:39 PM
To remove the valve body remove the four hoses, take off the cap at the end of the valve and remove the lock nut. Remove the spacer, spring and adapter. Remove the two bolts that hold the valve body to the rest of the control valve. Carefully remove the valve body from the shaft. Follow the shop manual when you install the new seals and insert the spool. It needs to be done correctly to avoid damage to the seals or spool. Then reverse the procedure to reinstall it. Tighten the lock nut until it stops and then back it off 1/4 turn. Reinstall the hoses, refill, start the car and keep your fingers crossed.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 05:32 PM
I'll wait for the complete disassembly till I get the gasket kit in hand, this way stuff will be fresh in my head as I reassemble.
Hoses and the ram is off already.

Thanks again for the help.

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 07:14 PM
I got a couple more questions about this procedure.

One is, will I be able to replace all the seals without taking the ball stud off the pitman arm? Seems the cover under the metal sleeve cannot be replaced without taking the stud off? Is this cover an oil seal, or a just a dust boot?

Second, Rockauto has a rebuild service for $160.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1960,thunderbird,5.8l+352cid+v8,1336632,steer ing,power+steering+control+valve,7280

Should I just go ahead and do this, or do it myself. If I do send it in then how do I get the pitman arm off? I think if I can get the arm off then I'll feel better about doing it myself anyway.

I found a rebuild kit for $50 which includes the ball stud.

Thanks.

jopizz
09-02-2017, 07:44 PM
You said earlier that the valve looked new. If so then you should not have to replace the ball stud. It should have already been done. The instructions I gave you earlier are to just replace the two spool seals without removing the ball stud from the pitman arm. The ball stud needs to be greased so the boot is a dust cover. If you want to remove the entire unit and have it rebuilt you need to use a puller to separate it. I use a tie rod end puller like this. It's not perfect but with a little finessing it works fine.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-02-2017, 08:04 PM
I'm not sure where the leak is in the valve so I want to replace all the seals. Seems the best way to do this is on a work bench and not laying under the car and having to work with just inches of space.

I do not have that puller, good reason to buy one. :)

The valve appears to be new, but I was thinking that if I have to start beating the heck out of it to remove it from the pitman arm than I will still have a new ball stud to put in. Looks like I may not need to resort to the BFH.

Thanks John.

jopizz
09-02-2017, 08:07 PM
It can only leak because the spool seals or the spool seal bushings are worn. That's the only part of the control valve that has fluid in it. The rest of the valve is dry except for grease around the ball stud. There's no reason to use a hammer. Use a puller instead. All you are going to do is dent the body and then it's useless.

John

Deanj
09-03-2017, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=Infinite Monkeys;"I'm not sure where the leak is in the valve so I want to replace all the seals. Seems the best way to do this is on a work bench and not laying under the car and having to work with just inches of space."

The beauty of this is that the PS control valve can be serviced easily on the car. Turn your wheels to the right and the control valve comes right toward you at the left tire. 2 screws hold the end cap exposing the adjusting nut. Remove the adjusting nut and the washers, spring, valve spool, and more washers come out in order.

This isn't difficult at all, but I can tell you I made it more difficult like you imagine it to be. You'll kick yourself in the can if you take it off the car to replace the washers.

Dean

Infinite Monkeys
09-03-2017, 12:44 PM
I've had a suspicion that I'm over-thinking this. Although it would be nice to have the new tool, it is about $40. I'll give it a try without removing the valve.

Thanks.

jopizz
09-03-2017, 01:17 PM
I've had a suspicion that I'm over-thinking this. Although it would be nice to have the new tool, it is about $40. I'll give it a try without removing the valve.

Thanks.

Both Autozone and Advance Auto have a loan a tool program. The tool itself is $14.99 at Advance Auto.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-04-2017, 01:02 AM
Since I'm going to replace the seals with the valve on the car and will not be replacing the ball stud, what kit do I need. Here are two I'm looking at, which is the one I need to stop the leak?
One obviously has a lot more parts, but is it what I need? Or will the cheaper option do?

Thanks again.

https://www.wilsontbird.com/parts/1958-1960-power-steering-control-valve-rebuild-kit

And:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_thunderbird/ford-thunderbird-control-valve-seal-kit-includes-seals-for-both-size-valves-1958-60.html

jopizz
09-04-2017, 12:22 PM
The kit from Mac's includes a seal for a 1958 Thunderbird which you don't need. If you don't want to pay extra for a part you won't use then order it from here.

https://www.larrystbird.com/product/power-steering-control-valve-repair-kit-5960-2-seal/

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-04-2017, 02:37 PM
The kit from Mac's includes a seal for a 1958 Thunderbird which you don't need. If you don't want to pay extra for a part you won't use then order it from here.

https://www.larrystbird.com/product/power-steering-control-valve-repair-kit-5960-2-seal/

John

So all I need to stop the leak are 2 seals?

Nothing else from the complete kit from Pat Wilson's?

Thanks.

jopizz
09-04-2017, 02:43 PM
So all I need to stop the leak are 2 seals?

Nothing else from the complete kit from Pat Wilson's?

Thanks.

That's all you need. Two little seals is all that keeps it from leaking. That's assuming that the spool and cylinder are in good condition and not scored. Normally they are fine. Just make sure you put the seals in correctly and not backwards. Follow the instructions in the shop manual.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-04-2017, 02:59 PM
That's all you need. Two little seals is all that keeps it from leaking. That's assuming that the spool and cylinder are in good condition and not scored. Normally they are fine. Just make sure you put the seals in correctly and not backwards. Follow the instructions in the shop manual.

John

Thank you.

Infinite Monkeys
09-07-2017, 05:06 PM
Got the seals today. I'm having trouble putting in the first seal into the steering ram. I've already ruined one, kit I got came with two, so I have another shot at it.
Looks like there is a lip on the edge of the shaft that's catching the edge of the seal. I've filed down the lip, but still not working.
Shaft and seal are lubed with fluid.
It'll go on fine if I put it on backwards, but I'm sure that'll leak.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

jopizz
09-07-2017, 05:27 PM
I don't know what to tell you. As you can see by the diagram the seals go on either end of the spool. The lip of the seal goes toward the center of the spool.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-07-2017, 05:30 PM
I meant the steering ram seal. I need to get it on the rod. The spring end on the seal must point to the cylinder, but the lip is cutting the seal when I try and install it.

Thanks.

jopizz
09-07-2017, 05:41 PM
Sorry, I should've read your post more carefully. I think I used a plastic collar that slips on the outer shaft so the seal won't tear. It doesn't mention anything like that in the manual but I've had the same problem.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-07-2017, 06:07 PM
I wonder if the seals were origanly put in from the cylinder side and then the ram was welded?

That's the only way I can see to put the first seal in without tearing. I tried again with the second seal.......Got a new kit on the way. :)

$20 lesson learned.

I have a week to file away at it to get a nice taper on the end of the shaft. Maybe I'll have better luck next time. The lip is definitely the issue.

jopizz
09-07-2017, 06:35 PM
You might want to try putting some heat shrink tubing over the shaft. That should soften the transition so the edge isn't as sharp.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-07-2017, 07:57 PM
I beveled the rod to take the sharp edge off, the bevel is still well above the seals. All the seals now slide on without a problem. The new, ripped seal went on without an issue. I just need to wait till I get the new one's in to see how it'll work, but I think I got it.
Second picture is of the rod fully retracted.

Thanks again.

Infinite Monkeys
09-08-2017, 11:49 AM
I don't know what to tell you. As you can see by the diagram the seals go on either end of the spool. The lip of the seal goes toward the center of the spool.

John

Hi John,
Looks like I'm missing the outer most valve seal bushing in the control valve. What are my options?
Thanks.

Infinite Monkeys
09-08-2017, 01:07 PM
So I drilled out a washer and it fits pretty good over the valve and in the bore. This is pretty thin.

Another options is to use a spare washer that came in the seal kit for the ram. This washer is much thicker and also fits well.

jopizz
09-08-2017, 01:14 PM
I had the same problem with one of mine. The thin bushing was cracked. If you can make a washer the same thickness and diameter that should work. That's what I did. They don't seem to be available. The full kits have plastic bushings but they don't have one that fits the '59-'60 valves. It's not that critical as long as it fits snugly in the bore and doesn't bind.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-08-2017, 01:25 PM
Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the left side, outer most valve spool seal bushing. Not the plastic piece. Not the centering spring, plastic bushing.

Currently I have the slightly fatter washer that came with the ram kit test fitted. It fits well and is not galled like the make-shift one I made.

My reference is the diagram you posted below.

Mine is just plain missing. Valve appears to be newer. Maybe it was never installed during the rebuild.

Thanks.

jopizz
09-08-2017, 01:48 PM
We're talking about the same thing. The real thin steel bushing that goes on the outer larger end of the spool. As long as it's not too much thicker than the other bushing it should work. As I said the new bushings are plastic so it's basically just a spacer. I imagine it broke and whoever put it back together didn't feel it was necessary. Without that bushing it was destined to leak.

John

Infinite Monkeys
09-08-2017, 01:51 PM
Ok, I'll put in the thinner one.
Thanks again.

Edit:

Got everything put together and came back in to look over the thread. Found John's reference to the fatter end of the spool facing out.

This is not how it was put together. The thinner end was out and the inner, centering spring washer was also, originally put in backwards.
I has assembled it as I found it (backwards) and just had to go back and redo properly.