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Djweaz
07-31-2017, 01:35 AM
After the rebuild of my carb it was still running rich so got the metering rods changed out and jets. I decided to change my plugs thinking they would be pretty fouled from last season as well as the couple of times I have driven it this year. Been a busy summer that has gone to quickly. I pulled the plugs and my #5 was fouled with a bit of oil the other ones were fine with no oil on them. Which brings me to how much would a valve job run on a 430ci? Possibly piston rings? I figure it will be a good thing anyway so I'm not wondering if it had been changed over to be able to run unleaded and won't have to buy anymore octane boost in it which I keep a supply of in my trunk.

Another question I have is where is the PCV at? might it be this odd item in the rear valley? A crankcase ventilation tube? ive been told 430cis didnt have one and a few staid this shouldnt be there.I have seen in a couple pictures at least a hole.

Rob

Tbird6
07-31-2017, 10:14 AM
Right no PCV valve just a road draft tube and yours looks to be blocked off. This is very bad. I would install a PCV to clear the internal engine vapors and burn them thru the carb. Right now you are building sludge inside the engine on all surfaces.

Engine will be much cleaner if you run a PCV valve.

Valve job will be much cheaper as you can just pull the heads. Unless you have done a compression check I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard which us Tbird guys don't. We are cruisers!
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jopizz
07-31-2017, 10:56 AM
It appears that someone put a pcv valve coming off the back of the carburetor. If that's so then it's on backwards. That's what that hose connection looks like to me. Where is the other end of the hose connected to.

John

Djweaz
07-31-2017, 02:10 PM
Right low and slow is the way I roll haha. So are you saying that I should remove that tube and get a PCV valve hooked up to it?



Right no PCV valve just a road draft tube and yours looks to be blocked off. This is very bad. I would install a PCV to clear the internal engine vapors and burn them thru the carb. Right now you are building sludge inside the engine on all surfaces.

Engine will be much cleaner if you run a PCV valve.

Valve job will be much cheaper as you can just pull the heads. Unless you have done a compression check I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard which us Tbird guys don't. We are cruisers!
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Djweaz
07-31-2017, 02:13 PM
Hey John I have been told that it's a one way check valve for the power brake booster which is where the line goes. It appears that someone put a pcv valve coming off the back of the carburetor. If that's so then it's on backwards. That's what that hose connection looks like to me. Where is the other end of the hose connected to.

John

Tbird1044
07-31-2017, 02:45 PM
It's difficult to tell exactly what is going on and how your engine is set up. Definitely needs a breather tube or PCV system.
If you're only seeing oil fouling on #5 cylinder, you might try changing the valve seals on that cylinder. You can do that without pulling the head. I think there is a procedure in the TRL. Just a thought as this could be a minor fix instead of a major one.
Nyles

jopizz
07-31-2017, 02:58 PM
Hey John I have been told that it's a one way check valve for the power brake booster which is where the line goes.

That makes more sense. You definitely need to remove that tube on the back of the manifold. You should be able to install a pcv valve without too much difficulty. Your carburetor has a vacuum fitting on the front that will work fine for hooking one up. You can also remove the plug in the back of the carburetor and put a fitting there.

John

simplyconnected
07-31-2017, 06:14 PM
...I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard...This is a 430 MEL with slanted block deck.

Normally, I would agree but in this case I will respectfully disagree for the following reasons:


The block bores need to be measured before ANY work is done.
New rings exert lots of sidewall pressure but they cannot flex in a bell-shaped bore. They will break.
[LIST] Old rings still work because they are worn and most of their spring-seal is gone. So, new rings need straight bores.

If the bores are out of tolerance, the options are few because OEM-type pistons are NOT available. They are domed and come in sets of 4-RH and 4-LH. Otherwise, flat pistons must be used at a drastically reduced compression ratio. So, there goes your HP. <--THIS determines if you should spend any more money on your 430.

If newly rebuilt heads are mated with old piston rings, the old rings will fail very soon. (Been there.) When all the parts are new, they seal well but they also wear together, which is why old engines still work.

If you're rebuilding heads, I mean if you go through all the trouble to get them to a machine shop, let the shop install hardened exhaust seats. The job doesn't cost that much more and the fear of receded valves will be gone. I would also install stainless valves and new valve springs.

Personally, I would shelve the 430 and build a 390 (FE) because all the parts are supported at reasonable prices. - Dave

pbf777
07-31-2017, 08:28 PM
O.K., here goes another opinion from the peanut gallery:D: first, before any disassembly, I would do a compression and more importantly, a leak-down test, in an attempt to establish a somewhat better understanding of the current condition of the engine. With the leak-down test one may establish how great and from where the bulk of any cylinder leakage is emanating from, thereby determining whether just pulling the heads alone is of value in the overall situation.

As far as recommendations of specific processes in the rebuilding machine work, that should be left to the machine shop holding these applicable components, as it would require observation/inspection of their condition.

Not to be at odds with anyone, but since it was mentioned, I prefer to use bronze guide liners (vs. complete guides) in restoration type (old car, "cruisers") guide repairs. This process consists of boring the valve guide bore +.060"+/- pressing a .030" wall bronze sleeve (cut to length), an expanding process, reaming and or honing to size; this removes less original parent material from the cylinder head, leading to less tendency for valve face displacement and is indefinitely replaceable in the future with no further machining of the cast iron. Oh, and it costs less!

As far as hardened exhaust seats, one should look at the existing condition of the cylinder heads. If the seats are "beat-out" then replacement seats it is, but if they're not sunk badly, then for the "cruiser" or show car, I generally agree (Tbird6), that incurring the cost, and, realizing that the manufacture did not intend such a process being executed, therefor did not intentionally provide excess material within the casting for such, and therefor realizing (and experiencing) that not all cylinder heads survive such efforts, it just ain't worth it,..... just to do it.

And, for my other two cents: NOOOO! do not remove and replace the 430 MEL with something else!

Scott.

OX1
07-31-2017, 09:25 PM
O.K., here goes another opinion from the peanut gallery:D: first, before any disassembly, I would do a compression and more importantly, a leak-down test, in an attempt to establish a somewhat better understanding of the current condition of the engine.

And, for my other two cents: NOOOO! do not remove and replace the 430 MEL with something else!

Scott.

Agree with compression and leakdown. besides fixing PCV, and maybe doing valve seals. Nothing else on engine should be done without both tests above.

I also agree on keeping 430. maybe it's not the easiest or cheapest, but if we all really wanted that, we could drop in 400 HP EFI LS motors for way cheaper than you can build a 390 (or even an injected smallblock ford).

Not sure if they are done yet, but this guy claims they have wedge pistons in the works.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-1959-1960-Lincoln-Ford-430-Piston-Ring-Set-compression-issue-solved-/331518305064?hash=item4d3007e328:g:YgQAAOSw9N1VvU5 m&vxp=mtr

simplyconnected
08-01-2017, 12:49 AM
All these opinions are healthy to examine and compare. If money is no object then certainly, an overhauled 430 would be a real treat. Just about anything can be made for a price, but hang on to your hat IF you can find someone to make proper parts.

Pistons top the list of rare parts and we have lots of posts regarding that. Here's a post from 11-10-2010 about a 'marine 430'. He mentions Photobucket pictures that have been removed long ago:

There has been a lot of discussion on pistons on the MEL engine forum, I have been part of that discussion. Although a number of manufacturers did make stepped pistons for the MEL series engines, most of them stopped based on demand. The pistons available from Kanter, Egge, and a few others are flat tops. This reduces the effective compression ratio from roughly 10:1 to about 7:1 and destroys the swirl in the combustion chamber further reducing performance. The 430 in particular was a VERY high performance engine with a short, yet fabled history. Ford paid particular attention to combustion chamber design, and piston style was big part of it.

In my particular build, which is a marine one, I ordered WISECO forged aluminum pistons with a 9.6 to 1 compression ratio. $1400 dollars. It was a fairly big investment, but overall in the big scheme of things.... not so much. My engine has been renewed completely with a 3 angle valve job, seats, new guides, crank was turned, Wiseco pistons, An original Mercury marauder intake with the 3 holley 2300's, Edelbrock M4 water cooled exhaust manifolds, Moon valve covers, etc etc. While cosmetics are important, a fresh engine costs for things you don't see, but they are the heart of the car/boat etc. I am looking forward to having an engine with a long life ahead of it, and no surprises or downsides.

If you visit the MEL engine forum, you will see a LONNNG thread on piston design etc.

Here are my Wiseco's and a couple of other pics of front and rear cover and polished manifold. Hours, I tell ya Hours.:D


The 430 MEL also used a special oil pump with a vacuum pump integrated on the bottom of the casting. Curiously, it was made by Delco-Remy.

The 430 never used an exhaust heat riser valve to warm the engine but they did have two thermostats, mounted into the block. I haven't seen these thermostats in many years at any price.

Soooo much discussion regarding heads... While it's true that heads are the heart of any engine, aluminum heads are far superior for transferring heat and shedding weight. I've never seen even a picture of an aluminum head for a 430.

Squarebirds came with two engine choices, the FE and MEL. Since FE engine sizes can not be readily identified from the outside, a 390 looks the same as a 352. Edelbrock offers aluminum heads and intake manifold for the 390 at a reasonable price. Edelbrock heads include bronze guides, Viton seals, Stainless valves, hardened seats, new springs and tapped holes with Helicoil inserts. They bolt-on right out the box.

I'm coming from a practical standpoint, in moderation. The 390 FE w/aluminum heads will solve heat problems whereas the finest cast iron heads lag far behind with a heat transfer factor of FOUR. Want high compression? Edelbrock added 5/8" of aluminum to the bottom of their heads so they can be shaved clear down to the valve seats (or not, your choice).

By contrast, the 430's combustion chamber is IN THE BLOCK. Sorry for yelling but nothing can be done about that. Any metal removed to clean up the heads or block will only make combustion chamber swirl and compression ratio matters worse.

The FE can easily produce more HP and torque than the MEL because of modern aftermarket choices, at reasonable cost. To top it off, savings in weight is well over 100 lbs. Swapping an FE in your SB for that MEL still keeps it 'Ford' and is a believable move, in keeping with the traditions of 'stock' parts. - Dave

OX1
08-01-2017, 12:32 PM
For the price of alum heads for a 390, I can get a 514 stroker kit for a 460. If I'm going to kill the uniqueness of the 430 for anything else, it might as well be something with some killer torque.

pbf777
08-01-2017, 01:03 PM
O.K........O.K., stop yelling at me! Just kidding :D.

Yes, rebuilding the 430 MEL will cost more than the FE, but not significantly.

Pistons yes, but they are readily available from the custom piston manufactures, with some delay (3-4 weeks) for production.
We're not dealers for Wiseco, (who make a fine product), and costs for pistons will vary from each supplier and options selected (one can run the costs up here), but this price consistently bantered about in this specific example is not typical of the cost one would anticipate incurring, just for pistons.

Yes, the original oil pump application in the MEL is unique, but, since often the windshield wipers are, or will be, converted to electric (or in some cases, the vehicles will just not be operated in the rain), the standard FE oil pump is substituted, and the vacuum wipers will still operate, just not as reliably under varying throttle application, when sourcing only manifold vacuum, accompanied by storage devises.

As far as thermostats: note that the water flow routing in the MEL is a little different from your other Ford products, and the two thermostats mounted in the block was an excellent engineering endeavour, for a more equal control of the temperatures of the opposing cylinder banks, particularly during warm-up, which was also added; but, proved to be somewhat excessive, and therefor discontinued, both in later production units and typically at rebuilding.

I have already commented on the aluminum vs. iron cylinder heads previously, so we won't go there again. But, I would like to clarify that the major lost value (other than compression ratio) within the cylinder when the "flat-top" pistons vs. properly designed dome configuration units are utilized would be described as "quench" vs. "swirl".

The quench area within the cylinder produces an effect that is often described as high velocity turbulence within the atmospheric environment on the compression stroke, particularly as the piston nears the cylinder head and during initial ignition, vs. swirl a generally lower velocity motion in which values are exhibited particularly during the inlet stroke and earlier in the pistons upward movement process before area is lost and things become more violent (atmospherically).

As far as to the better(?) engine(s) available for "hop-up", well, let's leave that for another thread.;)

Scott.

simplyconnected
08-01-2017, 01:51 PM
...Yes, rebuilding the 430 MEL will cost more than the FE, but not significantly...Scott, we have many Bulldozer owners who would like to know how much a major overhaul will cost. They are looking for standard machining services, using OEM-type parts including domed pistons.

In short, what is a fair price to bring a 430 MEL back to its original glory, and where can our members go to get it? This information should include the name and number of a reputable engine builder who is familiar with MEL 430 engines.

Thanks in advance, because 'theory' is wonderful but we are looking for tangible help. - Dave

OX1
08-01-2017, 04:35 PM
If and when I need 430 machine work, I would look for a guy who specializes in Chevy 409's. At least they should know how to machine the block.

pbf777
08-01-2017, 07:05 PM
In short, what is a fair price to bring a 430 MEL back to its original glory, and where can our members go to get it? This information should include the name and number of a reputable engine builder who is familiar with MEL 430 engines. - Dave

A "fair price" would be that in which both the buyer & seller were both satisfied with. Unfortunately, this would not consist of a specific number/monetary value across the board for any and all components and labor operations in every instance. Varying condition of the necessary items involved, & sum of the desired items to be addressed or replaced must be addressed on an individual basis. This question as you pose it, is not so simply answered.

Different vehicle owners (buyers) and different shops/rebuilding facilities (seller) often have different ideas/intentions of what is required to rebuild or even what the definition of such truly is. This requires a "meeting of the minds" or else dissatisfaction looms in the relationship. And if not in agreement, part company amiably, before one even begins.

The MEL engines are not so different from others (all have some sort of quirks), that any capable rebuilder/automotive machine shop shouldn't be able to provide such services. If the shop response is "we never worked on one of those before", this wouldn't be so surprising; but if also adding "I not sure if we know how", now, I suppose then I would move on.

Scott.

simplyconnected
08-01-2017, 07:53 PM
...This question as you pose it, is not so simply answered.

...part company amiably, before one even begins.

...I suppose then I would move on...Are you serious? Not one name of an engine builder or a phone number? Again, lots of theory but I'm looking for tangible help.

I use a reputable engine builder (http://www.dsengine.com/) who offers a free 2-year warranty on engines he builds. He extends that warranty for a fee.

I spoke with Mike, hours ago. He employs a dozen guys, each disciplined in different aspects of engine machining and assembly. He said his cost for a 430 set of heads is $600. That includes cleaning, truing all mating surfaces, new bronze guides, new exhaust seats and replacing any valves that are bad. Other options will be extra cost like, Viton seals, new springs, stainless valves, etc. So ok, I asked for standard fare, not rocket science. This is a good ball park start.

Mike mentioned that 10:1 compression ratio brings us to the top of our commonly found fuel octanes. I agree. He said 430 pistons may be available but suggested going down in compression ratio to about 9.3-9.5:1. I also agree. He asked for a few days to search around for pistons.

Mike is providing concrete answers, which is exactly what I would need to overhaul my 430. Before any work starts there will be a bottom line estimate and a detailed parts and labor list.

Thanks for your answer Scott, but I think I'm all set. - Dave

pbf777
08-01-2017, 10:02 PM
I'm not in the position to be aware, on a daily basis, of which shops provide what level of competence, on any possibly required operation, on any and all possible products, anywhere anyone on this forum may reside. Sorry.:rolleyes:

I am pleased with fact that you are satisfied with "your shop"; but as I read it, he hasn't stated a "how much a major overhaul will cost", some general numbers, but with the caveat that there are/will be additional charges for this or that, as required or deemed necessary. Doesn't really sound so different, does it? Some arbitrary "ball park" numbers to get started isn't what you asked; and I've been in the business long enough to see many projects fly right out of the "ball park" before it's over!

To often, supposed facts and concrete answers are boisterously presented in forums; and I only wish to advise that anyone contemplating such services communicate directly and accurately with those whom supply such services vs. following the opinion of the naive. ;)

Now I'm sure I've stepped over the line (again):eek:, but I feel I have only responded in a format as presented by others.

Remember the purpose here (forum) is to provide possible aid to others, not one's self. And that is my goal.:D

Scott.

simplyconnected
08-02-2017, 04:01 AM
...Yes, rebuilding the 430 MEL will cost more than the FE, but not significantly.

Pistons yes, but they are readily available from the custom piston manufactures, with some delay (3-4 weeks) for production...Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning but based on your answer, you say 'they are readily available'. I am looking for domed 430 pistons and I'm asking if you could share your source with our community. Yes, I asked for your help in estimating a fair price for an overhaul because you're right, after pistons are sourced the rest of the build is much like any FE engine. Fair and ball park have synonymous connotations.
...I am pleased with fact that you are satisfied with "your shop"; but as I read it, he hasn't stated a "how much a major overhaul will cost", some general numbers, but with the caveat that there are/will be additional charges for this or that, as required or deemed necessary. Doesn't really sound so different, does it? Some arbitrary "ball park" numbers to get started isn't what you asked; and I've been in the business long enough to see many projects fly right out of the "ball park" before it's over!..That's right, no price is possible until we find out what piston sizes are available, when they are available and finally, how much will they cost. We cut bore size to the pistons, so pistons must be there first.

The 430 Bulldozer is very different because FE cast pistons cost about $110 per set, not $1,400. This 430 major overhaul may not happen at all if parts are out of reach. That is why Mike asked for a few days to check his extensive sources and suppliers.

Extra cost? Let's play the 'what if' game... After cutting bores larger, what if the only pistons that are available are heavier than stock, which throws the crankshaft balance off. As with any engine, Mallory metal may need to be welded into the crankshaft counterweights and certainly a crankshaft balance (with flex plate and damper pulley) will be necessary. I've been here before with Sealed Power (Federal-Mogul) pistons. Size matters but excessive weight can drive the cost of an overhaul up an extra hundred bucks.

Regardless, all these considerations are part of an estimate before any work starts.

I simply gave a ball park number on heads because they are 'standard fare' and consistent with most cast iron heads. It's a good basis to start the overhaul pricing until more information becomes realized. All help is welcome. - Dave

GTE427
08-02-2017, 12:39 PM
The draft tube on the 430 is inside the block, you cannot see it from above when looking at the top side of the engine. The tube exits the left rear corner of the engine adjacent to the oil pan corner. The tube only extends about an inch outside the block and has a 45 degree bevel cut on the end. If you do not see the tube, look closer and you'll see the hole in the block facing the road.

OX1
08-02-2017, 03:11 PM
I just called Wiseco and Egge. Wiseco will do them for $1100 with moly skirt, or $940 without (either would be forged). Egge will do them for $1200, again forged.

Interestingly, Egge has the 462 cast pistons with what looks like the original "step" , but their cast 430 pistons are flat tops.

https://egge.com/part/egg-1000-e969-8/

Whole 430 rebuild kit here.

https://egge.com/kit/l430m59-60/

Lets say you add another $800 for the correct pistons, so we are at $3100 for parts.

It was suggested $600 for 430 head machine work. Lets add
another grand for block, tank and machine work. So we are at about $4700 for a mostly stock rebuild (with forged pistons, assuming self reassembly).

Not a crazy amount of money these days. For reference, here is a bone stock 2015 coyote long block.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-performance-long-block-5-0l-4v-coyote-435hp-mustang-2015-2017/p/M6006M50A/

OX1
08-02-2017, 03:21 PM
The more I look, I'd think I'd just source a 462 and rebuild that.
Should drop right in where a 430 goes, yes?

And just like the 390, the 462 will look just like a 430.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-1967-LINCOLN-MEL-462-RUNNING-ENGINE-TRANSMISSION-RADIATOR-AC-CARB-SHAFT-/172682151801?fits=Make%3ALincoln&hash=item2834a88779:g:kFwAAOSwblZZHfCT&vxp=mtr


Rebuild kit with what looks like correct pistons for $1800 here

http://www.bakersauto.com/ENGINE-REBUILD-KIT-61-62-63-64-65-66-67-68/productinfo/ERK/

simplyconnected
08-02-2017, 08:00 PM
...Whole 430 rebuild kit here.

https://egge.com/kit/l430m59-60/

Lets say you add another $800 for the correct pistons, so we are at $3100 for parts.

It was suggested $600 for 430 head machine work. Lets add
another grand for block, tank and machine work. So we are at about $4700 for a mostly stock rebuild (with forged pistons, assuming self reassembly).

Not a crazy amount of money these days. For reference, here is a bone stock 2015 coyote long block.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-performance-long-block-5-0l-4v-coyote-435hp-mustang-2015-2017/p/M6006M50A/And the difference is, the Coyote engine is sold outright. The entire engine is light weight aluminum that produces 435HP right out the box. It features a roller cam and it is balanced.

By contrast, US$4,700 is a terrible price because you end up with a heavy cast iron engine that was assembled with cheap components, uses flat tappets and is not balanced. Expect 80,000 miles, like when the 1960 engine was new.

When I overhaul an engine I assume nothing. I take it all the way down, machine the castings, then use name-brand components and premium parts like, FelPro gaskets, Cleveite bearings, a true roller timing set, Hastings moly rings, Mellings oil pump and intermediate shaft, brass core plugs, etc. I also choose a proper cam for the intended service, and time it accordingly. My recent builds included roller cams for today's oils (so do OEMs). Expect 250,000 miles between overhauls, iike modern engines.

I'm not knocking Egge's offering, at least they have one, but their components are mediocre at best. Cast pistons in a naturally aspirated engine work perfectly fine but I use hypereutectic alloy aluminum with moly rings (and so do the OEMs).

The best combination (for me) is to source domed 430 pistons then hand pick all the other components. Curiously, the kits may be available including pistons but individually, their pistons are typically out of stock because the bundle fetches bigger profits. I guess they need to make money some how... - Dave

scumdog
08-03-2017, 05:40 AM
Those figures scare me US $4,700 would pay for a mild rebuild of a 302 Windsor over here - and that would not include alloy head.

Heaven forbid my 390 ever needs rebuilding...

(PS My mate's getting his 428CJ rebuilt, I will report in the cost)

pbf777
08-03-2017, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE=OX1]The more I look, I'd think I'd just source a 462 and rebuild that.
Should drop right in where a 430 goes, yes?

Note that the bellhousing bolt pattern is different between early MEL's (pre-1961?; same as FE's) vs. latter units such as 462's (2 different; unique).

Scott.

pbf777
08-03-2017, 11:41 AM
By contrast,............. Expect 80,000 miles, like when the 1960 engine was new.
............. Expect 250,000 miles between overhauls, iike modern engines.Dave

Although I agree, that with more modern materials, and some, improved component engineering, one can anticipate extending the functioning life of the engine, yes! :)

But, probably the greatest improvement in extending this life span was achieved with the introduction of fuel injection vs carburetors (fuel control); and therefore I'm not sure that one will still acquire the comprable performance life of the modern examples. :(

Scott.

OX1
08-03-2017, 11:42 AM
[QUOTE=OX1]The more I look, I'd think I'd just source a 462 and rebuild that.
Should drop right in where a 430 goes, yes?

Note that the bellhousing bolt pattern is different between early MEL's (pre-1961?; same as FE's) vs. latter units such as 462's (2 different; unique).

Scott.

385 series bellhousing? Yet another reason, as I have 5 or 6 of them sitting around from parting out 70's FSB's and trucks.

OX1
08-03-2017, 12:07 PM
And the difference is, the Coyote engine is sold outright. The entire engine is light weight aluminum that produces 435HP right out the box. It features a roller cam and it is balanced.

By contrast, US$4,700 is a terrible price because you end up with a heavy cast iron engine that was assembled with cheap components, uses flat tappets and is not balanced. Expect 80,000 miles, like when the 1960 engine was new.

When I overhaul an engine I assume nothing. I take it all the way down, machine the castings, then use name-brand components and premium parts like, FelPro gaskets, Cleveite bearings, a true roller timing set, Hastings moly rings, Mellings oil pump and intermediate shaft, brass core plugs, etc. I also choose a proper cam for the intended service, and time it accordingly. My recent builds included roller cams for today's oils (so do OEMs). Expect 250,000 miles between overhauls, iike modern engines.

I'm not knocking Egge's offering, at least they have one, but their components are mediocre at best. Cast pistons in a naturally aspirated engine work perfectly fine but I use hypereutectic alloy aluminum with moly rings (and so do the OEMs).

The best combination (for me) is to source domed 430 pistons then hand pick all the other components. Curiously, the kits may be available including pistons but individually, their pistons are typically out of stock because the bundle fetches bigger profits. I guess they need to make money some how... - Dave

Was just using it as an example of what motors cost these days.
Funny with all that technology and a 4.17 first gear, it does not have the off idle torque of a worn out 430 (some of it is the crappy response of throttle by wire, but most of it is just lack of cubes).

250K miles, is about what I do, total mileage in all vehicles, in 20 years. I won't see 20K on any of my classics in 20 years. After that, I'll worry about it if you are still aloud to drive at all, let alone drive ICE vehicles.

I guess my moms orig 60, bought new by my dad and had 90K on it when it was parked in 77, was a real fluke then, huh?? Still ran just as well as it did when new (started to have some wierd electrical gremlins in headlights and Mom wanted new car, which unfortunately for her was a 77 Granada, a POS the day it came off the line and just got worse from there).

pbf777
08-03-2017, 03:26 PM
385 series bellhousing?

Nope!!! :D

Although, the 462 MEL C6 transmission will bolt-up properly to 385 series engine block. :confused:

Scott.

del
08-03-2017, 04:38 PM
which unfortunately for her was a 77 Granada, a POS the day it came off the line and just got worse from there.

My very 1st brand new car was a 1976 Granada. Worst car I've EVER owned.