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Frango100
04-13-2017, 08:21 PM
I was reading on here regarding the wire going from the starter solenoid directly to the ignition coil, bypassing the resistor during start. Looking at my starter solenoid, I donīt have this wire. Was there an option to have this wire or not, or should all 58īs have this? Could there be any good reason to not have this wire connected?

jopizz
04-13-2017, 08:38 PM
If you have two wires on the front of your solenoid you have the coil wire. It should be brown. All Squarebirds had that wire. It was not an option.

John

Frango100
04-13-2017, 08:55 PM
Thanks John. I will have a look at the solenoid on Sunday. The wiring diagram shows the wire for starting on one post of the solenoid, and the wire directly to the coil from the other post. And on my bird the second (small) post has nothing connected to it. So there should be two wires connected to the front small post of the solenoid?

jopizz
04-13-2017, 09:01 PM
Yes, you should have a wire on the right post. Without that wire your car should not start so it sounds like someone modified the original wiring.

John

Wyldie
04-13-2017, 11:45 PM
If your car has been converted to a 12 volt coil rather than 8v, then this wire is not required due to not needing to bypass the resister as there isn't one any more.

Maybe check your wiring harness, has someone cut it off where it exits the harness, can you see the base of the brown wire been cut off anywhere? You should have one.

Frango100
04-14-2017, 12:06 AM
My car still has the resistor, so that seems to be original. I will see on Sunday if I can find any traces of the brown wire.

Frango100
04-18-2017, 06:10 PM
It took a bit more time, but today checked the existence of the second thin wire on the starter solenoid (brown one), but its not there. The aft small post on the solenoid has nothing connected to it. The engine does start,
eventhough it takes quite some time to fire it up. But i had the idea that it comes from lack of fuel. My carburator is dry when i donīt start the bird for a few days.

Tbird1044
04-18-2017, 06:18 PM
Are you still running the Autolite 4100 carburetor? I too had the problem of it going dry after a day or 2. After several attempts, I finally got it fixed. I would set the carburetor on the work bench and the float bowls wouldn't go dry and then I'd put it on the car and I couldn't get them to hold fuel. I finally found that the tapered spacer between the carb and manifold was badly warped and out of shape. I used a flat plate and some fine sandpaper and straightened that tapered spacer. Then I carefully torqued the carb to the manifold and the problem went away.
Just thought I'd let you know what worked for me.
Nyles

scumdog
04-18-2017, 06:35 PM
Are you still running the Autolite 4100 carburetor? I too had the problem of it going dry after a day or 2. After several attempts, I finally got it fixed. I would set the carburetor on the work bench and the float bowls wouldn't go dry and then I'd put it on the car and I couldn't get them to hold fuel. I finally found that the tapered spacer between the carb and manifold was badly warped and out of shape. I used a flat plate and some fine sandpaper and straightened that tapered spacer. Then I carefully torqued the carb to the manifold and the problem went away.
Just thought I'd let you know what worked for me.
Nyles

Yes, even a brand new spacer can be warped.

I had to do the glass-and-sandpaper trick on mine - and then again about eight or so years later when I next had the carb off.
Although in my case it was a vacuum leak rather than a direct carb problem.

JohnG
04-18-2017, 06:45 PM
I believe the idea of the 12v source was to have a fatter spark while you are trying to start the car. Once started, that source ceases and you have the 6V (or whatever it provides) source from the ballast resistor.

If you car is reluctant to start, that might be a reason. On the other hand, if it starts well then the 12V source is not important.

Best plan is probably to reproduce what Ford had.

John

simplyconnected
04-18-2017, 07:49 PM
John is on the money, here. When a starter motor cranks, the battery voltage goes down. We say this voltage reduction is due to, 'internal battery resistance.' In cold Michigan winters, after the car sat all night, morning starts are more like groans because the battery voltage goes WAY down and oil viscosity goes up, making mechanical resistance much greater.

It doesn't make sense to put further resistance on the ignition circuit when voltage is already low. To 'help' the coil fill, we use a direct (brown) wire to the battery during start-up.

Think about that for a minute. If you lift the hood and simply jump across the starter solenoid, spark plugs WILL FIRE, regardless of key position. So a good mechanic will disconnect the coil's high tension wire while 'bumping' the starter.

Will the engine fire with the key off by jumping from the battery post to the solenoid coil? You betcha.

So, replace the brown wire to your coil (+) post. When working on the engine, disconnect the high voltage coil wire. - Dave

Frango100
04-18-2017, 09:25 PM
Are you still running the Autolite 4100 carburetor? I too had the problem of it going dry after a day or 2. After several attempts, I finally got it fixed. I would set the carburetor on the work bench and the float bowls wouldn't go dry and then I'd put it on the car and I couldn't get them to hold fuel. I finally found that the tapered spacer between the carb and manifold was badly warped and out of shape. I used a flat plate and some fine sandpaper and straightened that tapered spacer. Then I carefully torqued the carb to the manifold and the problem went away.
Just thought I'd let you know what worked for me.
Nyles
Hi Nyles, no, i have an Edelbrock 1405. But what would the warped spacer do to the carburator?Would it twist the housing? We have around 25% of alcohol mixed with the fuel, so could that be a part of the problem?

Frango100
04-18-2017, 09:30 PM
John is on the money, here. When a starter motor cranks, the battery voltage goes down. We say this voltage reduction is due to, 'internal battery resistance.' In cold Michigan winters, after the car sat all night, morning starts are more like groans because the battery voltage goes WAY down and oil viscosity goes up, making mechanical resistance much greater.

It doesn't make sense to put further resistance on the ignition circuit when voltage is already low. To 'help' the coil fill, we use a direct (brown) wire to the battery during start-up.

Think about that for a minute. If you lift the hood and simply jump across the starter solenoid, spark plugs WILL FIRE, regardless of key position. So a good mechanic will disconnect the coil's high tension wire while 'bumping' the starter.

Will the engine fire with the key off by jumping from the battery post to the solenoid coil? You betcha.

So, replace the brown wire to your coil (+) post. When working on the engine, disconnect the high voltage coil wire. - Dave

I donīt know what the previous owner(s) have been doing to the bird, but the wire harness seems to be new. But there are also still old wires around with the old connectors. Either way, i will put a new brown wire in there, to make the starts easier. Thanks all for the comments.

simplyconnected
04-18-2017, 11:18 PM
As an Electrician Leader in Dearborn Engine Plant, my area of responsibility was the ground floor which included all the machining and balance tooling.

When a piece of automation stopped, all the management would gather around the trouble spot asking, 'Who did this?' and 'How did it happen?' and 'How long will it be down?' None of them understood that we deal with the situation as it is, NOW.

Instead of looking for sources of blame and history lessons, let's fix it and then ask all the questions you like later, when the line is running. Yes, we all want to prevent this from happening again but in your case, this issue isn't applicable. I could run a wire from that solenoid post to the coil in less than five minutes and tie it down, neat and proper, in another five minutes. Done.

We will probably never know who 'did it' or why. Frankly, do we really care? No. Match your wiring to the Ford drawings. If you only have white or black wire, run it anyway and tape the ends brown later on. Now on to the next issue...

BTW, it's just as easy to make your own wire harnesses. Essex Wire made Ford's harnesses to Ford spec's, as cheaply as they could. You can use even better quality wire using just black. The harness is usually taped in its entire length with non-glued black vinyl electrical tape and nobody can see any of the wire colors inside. Only the end colors are what matters. Eg: If you need green-yellow (green with a yellow trace), tape the first 4cm (2") green with a stripe of yellow on the end including the connector barrel. - Dave