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OX1
01-22-2017, 02:38 PM
From this thread here

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100071#poststop


Take a look at this pic - the blue line represents the amount of distance away from the spindle center line at the top. You can see the '77 Tbird spindle (and probably other full size Ford spindles) would stick out further at the top than Tbird or Granada spindles.

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100607/b_102457.jpg



It would appear I have the 77 Bird spindles/brakes.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/KNUCKLE/20170121_084152a.jpg

What is odd is that setup was on the 60 I got for parts,
and that car saw upwards of 6K miles when it was
all together. It did not appear to have severe
camber problems when I picked it up and tire
wear sure does not appear to be heavy on the
positive camber.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/KNUCKLE/FRONT%20TIRE.jpg

That car did have some kind of aftermarket spring,
so I'm wondering if a lowered ride height pushed the
lower control arm more flat and outward. Couldn't of
been that low as he had a 235 width, 15" tire on them
and no clearance problems.

So now I'm not sure how I want to proceed. I sand blasted
all the parts, but hate to start powder coating if I can't
use this stuff. I would stuff all the parts back on the
parts car with out the springs, but I already removed
upper control arm bushings.

scumdog
01-22-2017, 04:35 PM
It would appear the '77 Tbird bottom balljoint hole is also further in, i.e. it looks like is going to put the spindle at the same angle more or less as the squarebird one.
Only it will put the wheel further out from the centre of the car.

OX1
01-22-2017, 05:32 PM
It would appear the '77 Tbird bottom balljoint hole is also further in, i.e. it looks like is going to put the spindle at the same angle more or less as the squarebird one.
Only it will put the wheel further out from the centre of the car.

I agree, just going off of what DKheld tried with his setup, which he fixed with the Granada stuff. Guess I'll put it in and see what happens. Worse case I have to swap knuckles and I do have Granada knuckles also.

Joe Johnston
01-22-2017, 05:47 PM
Only it will put the wheel further out from the centre of the car.

This is also the result when Granada spindles are used on 55 - 57's as well. It works, but looks odd from the stern unless different wheels are used to compensate.

OX1
01-22-2017, 06:37 PM
This is also the result when Granada spindles are used on 55 - 57's as well. It works, but looks odd from the stern unless different wheels are used to compensate.

You mean when you use the 77 stuff, as the Granada knuckle should be farther inboard? Unless you mean that is what looks weird due to being farther inboard?

Joe Johnston
01-22-2017, 06:50 PM
The Granada set up puts the (same) wheel about 1" out further from the center of the car. Looks odd because the front wheels and rear wheels do not follow in the same track going down the road.

OX1
01-22-2017, 10:48 PM
The Granada set up puts the (same) wheel about 1" out further from the center of the car. Looks odd because the front wheels and rear wheels do not follow in the same track going down the road.

So the 77 T-bird stuff must push the track out even
further, unless the rotor (wheel mount surface)
is farther inboard.

Well I dug out the Granada parts and set them
next to the 77 bird stuff.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/77%20BIRD%20VS%2077%20GRANADA/20170122_220343a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/77%20BIRD%20VS%2077%20GRANADA/20170122_220401a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/77%20BIRD%20VS%2077%20GRANADA/20170122_220440a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/77%20BIRD%20VS%2077%20GRANADA/20170122_220706a.jpg

Bottom line is T-bird stuff is about an inch farther
inboard, ball joints holes vs WMS (over the
Granada stuff). The T-bird stuff also has the
upper ball joint hole about 1/4 inch farther
inboard (vs lower) than the Granada setup,
which could cause to much pos camber like
DKheld got. Tie rod hole is also about 3/4
inch farther inboard also.

Overall, I think I could fix track issues, if
any, with wheel backspacing. I'll have
to check that further as I want to use 14"
wheels, so they probably need less
backspacing to clear calipers (vs stock
wheels anyway).

My mom had a 77 Granada (hence where the parts
probably came from, since my dad found them
in his basement). My brother dropped a 302 in
it after he got it, and tooled it around for a
while. I don't remember the brakes being all
that great on it, and it was only 3200ish lbs.

Joe Johnston
01-23-2017, 07:26 AM
Overall, I think I could fix track issues, if
any, with wheel backspacing.

Yes that will work.

DKheld
01-23-2017, 12:19 PM
Yep - that's my pic of the comparison.

I had no idea what Granada spindles looked like at the time as was told that's what these were. Of course I was also told they would bolt right on (which they did) but after removing all the shims from the top A-Arm I could see there was no way to set the camber correctly. The top of the tire stuck waaay out and the bottom arm is not adjustable.

Bet the track could be fixed using those spindles - maybe use a different upper A-Arm (Galaxie?) or have one made but I was looking for a bolt in type system and didn't want to go down that road. Plus - it was about 12 years ago and there was very little info. Even fewer folks that had an operating conversion. In fact the ONE guy that said he had a disc system on his car never replied after I asked for some pic's so I could just follow what he did.

I sold those spindles to a guy with a Galaxie so I bet the A-Arms are different enough that they will work on the Galaxie - just a guess though.

Here's a comparison pic of the drivers side of the car with a standard spindle and the pass side with the 77 Tbird spindle plus all the alignment shims at the top A-Arm removed.

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20051126/b_015542.jpg

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20051126/b_015452.jpg

I haven't had any problems with my Granada setup other than alignment. Got lucky and had a shop that would work with me - he would set it - let me drive it a week or two to see how it felt - then go back and tell him how it felt and he would see if he could adjust to make it better. Unfortunately the shop went out of business before I could go back for the last time - he was going to print out the final settings for me.

Stopping power is fine - even on mountain roads and I only have the small original type Bendix booster with a Lincoln front to accept the modern style master cyl.

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_200431.jpg

http://media800.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20141231/111333.jpg

I did find it necessary to use a banjo style brake line because the Granada line was too short and looked like it would hit the upper spring mount at a full turn. Took me a while to find the right thread banjo bolt - no idea what the part number is. I found it by searching for the right length, diameter and thread pitch.

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060317/b_044711.jpg

You also need to have the Granada spindles machined to fit the lower Tbird ball joint correctly. Basically a new taper.

Although a great set-up and it has been very reliable as well as easy to get parts if needed - by the time you get the alignment set - it would probably cost about the same as using the Squarebird brackets that were not available 12 years ago. Unless of course you can set the alignment yourself.

Hope to have my car to an alignment shop one day to get the settings t post but just don't have the time right now and likely won't take it out again until a good rain washes most of the winter salt off the roads.:(

Good luck on your conversion - you'll love the discs.

Eric

OX1
01-23-2017, 02:38 PM
Yep - that's my pic of the comparison.

I had no idea what Granada spindles looked like at the time as was told that's what these were. Of course I was also told they would bolt right on (which they did) but after removing all the shims from the top A-Arm I could see there was no way to set the camber correctly. The top of the tire stuck waaay out and the bottom arm is not adjustable.

Eric

I'm confused, you had problems with camber on the
Granada setup also??

What is strange is the parts I'm calling "77 T-bird" parts,
(not sure what they really are, but they look like your
77 T-bird parts) came on my 60 parts car. Not sure
how that was aligned, but it was fine before I pulled
them off that car. I will probably attempt to use them
just for that reason alone.

As for alignment, I recently bought my own used Hunter
4 wheel alignment system. I already had a 4 post lift,
and I had the alignment system calibrated by my local
Hunter rep when he dropped it off. It came from a
Mercedes dealership that was upgrading to the latest
Hunter stuff.

One thing I noticed why aligning my dads fox body
LTD (which is strut front susp, not double wishbone
like SB's). Camber changes decently just from a driver
getting inside the car. I'm sure no one does alignments
with the driver in the car though.

DKheld
01-23-2017, 09:32 PM
The pictures are after I installed a 77 Tbird spindle (thinking it was a Granada spindle) on the passenger side and removed ALL the upper alignment shims. The fellow that sold those spindles to me was less than honest.

I finally found a picture of what Granada spindles looked like and realized what I had were different and of course they couldn't be returned. I didn't know what the first ones were either just that I was told they would work.

The fellow that bought them from me at a car show told me they were 77 Tbird. Probably a series of years and cars but that's what I was told anyway.

The Granada spindles were set for 0 deg camber as a starting point but the car was very unstable on the interstate (believe that is the correct setting for the original Tbird alignment) - at any rate - we had to start somewhere.

The best setting for all driving conditions with my particular tires and Granada spindles definitely has some negative camber. These tires were 10+ years old and about 20K miles. You can see the wear to the right side which is the inside (bubble is a broken belt so I replaced all the tires). Wish we were closer and I'd bring mine by for you to check on your alignment machine - very nice.

http://media5001.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20150924/095824.jpg

The Coker Classics in the EXACT same size as my Diamond Back Radials don't handle as well. Lots of wiggling around on grooved interstate roads where as the Diamond Backs were so nice I could drive with one had on the wheel. It's probably all tread design - even though they were very similar. The Diamond Backs were Dayton brand tires, I would only buy another set of Coker Classics as a last resort (as in they were the only thing left on the entire planet).:(

https://assets.cokertire.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/180x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/o/coker-classic-whitewall-radial_1.png


Don't have a really good pic from the front straight on - but the negative camber is not enough to be noticed.

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20080828/075254.jpg



http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100525/b_045327.jpg

Eric

OX1
01-24-2017, 08:02 AM
OK, thanks. I would probably start with at least some
negative camber. The only thing I set straight up zero are
wide (12.5 or wider) offroad truck tires, as they
are too expensive to get any wear from camber.

Don't think I would ever go for Coker or similar, just
insane money that I can use elsewhere on this project.
I got Hankook 1" whitewalls for under $300 that go down
the road nice and smooth (and that was my top criteria).
These cars handle so bad stock, not sure any tire is going
to matter that much.

Will be fun to get alignment heads on the rear I suspect.
The heads normally mount on edge of rims like this

https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/61173/61173,1268176756,2/stock-photo-car-wheel-fixed-with-computerized-wheel-alignment-machine-clamp-48331843.jpg

and need to be rotated 360 to calibrate, not even sure
that is going to work with the skirts removed.

I also got a set of tire clamp adapters for nice alum rims that
won't mess up edge of rim. They mount like this.

https://equipmentdistributors.biz/image/get?imageType=Product&imageName=676-20-1789-1.jpg

with bumpers on rim edge instead of the clamps that
dig into inside edge of rims. Doubt those would fit
between rear 1/4 and tire when you calibrate head.

Heck, I had to jack up body and let axle droop just
to get tire/rim off, but my rear springs may be droopy.
They look in good shape, but are probably original.






The best setting for all driving conditions with my particular tires and Granada spindles definitely has some negative camber.

The Coker Classics

Don't have a really good pic from the front straight on - but the negative camber is not enough to be noticed.

Eric

OX1
01-28-2017, 09:41 AM
I had discussed getting these metal punches in another
thread, but finally got them in the mail. I ordered them
back in Nov. :eek:

Anyway, appears they are US made and seem much
better than some of the china junk steel quality
(which overall, china stuff does seem to be improving).
One pic shows color change from temper, I assume.

Had to punch each letter twice, but that was probably
due to my size and strength (or lackthereof :D).
Last pic shows letter heads after punching with
no wear on letters themselves.

Not sure if lettering will be covered over by
powder coating, but at least I know which end
is which up until that point. Not sure if it
even matters on this part, especially since
they came out of a different car.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/LETTER%20PUNCH/20170120_171215a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/LETTER%20PUNCH/20170120_171304a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/LETTER%20PUNCH/20170120_171321a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/LETTER%20PUNCH/20170120_192716a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/LETTER%20PUNCH/20170120_192820a.jpg

OX1
01-29-2017, 11:03 PM
So back to the brakes. I had asked about
booster size in this thread

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105616#poststop

It seems lower shifter arm and valve cover
are the main culprits (with factory AC
coming in 3rd for many).

After reading 15 threads on disk brake
conversions, it seemed no one has solved
the issue of fitting a larger booster than
an 8" dual diaphr.

My first thought was redesign the shifter
arm, but even with that, the MC is almost
inline with the edge of valve cover (on 430
at least).

Buddy gave me this dual diaphr 9" booster,
so I was curious how it fit. It doesn't, unless
you move it over to the drivers side.

I started thinking why not. It could kill
2 (possibly 3) birds @ once. My idea is
why does the MC rod and booster rod
have to be in the same plane laterally.
(or athwartship for you Navy guys).

Couple pics of the booster where it easily
fits, could probably go to a 10" if desired.
Also, a real ugly sketch of my proposed
bracket assembly. Even with 9" booster,
it appeared I would only have to raise it
up about 2.5-3" since it is now offset
from shifter linkage.

So , aside from a totally custom
bracket/fulcrum, what am I missing??

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/9%20INCH%20BOOSTER/20170129_214901a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/9%20INCH%20BOOSTER/20170129_214955a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/9%20INCH%20BOOSTER/20170129_215024a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/9%20INCH%20BOOSTER/20170129_215146a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/9%20INCH%20BOOSTER/scan0006a.jpg

scumdog
01-30-2017, 03:12 AM
https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/61173/61173,1268176756,2/stock-photo-car-wheel-fixed-with-computerized-wheel-alignment-machine-clamp-48331843.jpg

and need to be rotated 360 to calibrate, not even sure
that is going to work with the skirts removed.

.

Uh, the rear wheels don't need calibrate/aligned!

OX1
01-30-2017, 06:05 AM
Uh, the rear wheels don't need calibrate/aligned!

True there are no adjustments on rear solid axles,
but it is rare that thrust angle is perfect, especially
on a 50+ year old car. So you need to know which
way the rears are pointed to align fronts. Back in
the day it was called a thrust alignment.

After doing enough alignments, you can adjust
front toe and in some cases crank in a bit more
caster to compensate for thrust angle.

"Thrust Angle The direction the rear wheels are
positioned in reference to the vehicle center line.Thrust
angle is the direction that the rear wheels are pointing
in relation to the center line of the vehicle If the thrust
line is to the right of the centerline, the angle is said to
be positive. If the thrust line is to the left of center,
the angle is negative."

DKheld
01-30-2017, 10:03 AM
Offset bracket looks like a good idea for the larger booster.
(man that is a whopper of a booster) http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20161219_201058.jpg
Hope everybody has their seat belts on when you step on the brakes:D

Only thing I could think of is that the bracket might tend to flex toward the engine when the brakes were applied???? I believe just adding a piece of flat metal from the back of the bracket where you have labeled "fire" as far out on the angle piece as possible and the same on the other side. From "wall" out to the angle. You could put them on top or bottom if there is room. Probably overkill.....

And - maybe you are thinking of much heavier gauge steel than I am.:eek:

I've even found the original 7 inch booster offers plenty of assist. Been using it for over 10 years now with no problems.

http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20111106/b_194539.jpg

Even when the dang engine is on fire.
http://media5000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20160330/b_184311.jpg

I used a similar proportioning valve on my system. Mine is a combo valve - balances perfectly.

Might want to check on a different master cyl. I bet that is the same one I am using if we were to cross-reference it. Pretty sure I bought the one designed for a Granada (since I was using Granada calipers) or the Lincoln Mark series cars (similar weight). Anyway the outlets are on the manifold/valve cover side so you need to make sharp bends to clear them plus your brake lines are hanging over the manifold absorbing the heat. Hasn't been a problem on mine but just something to think about. Believe the Mustang master cyl's has the outlets on the fender side.

http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20111215/b_180510.jpg


I also put my proportioning valve down on the frame rather than hung under the master cyl because of the heat issue.
Of course I had planned a different configuration so the lines look like spaghetti but it worked and has been working so well I just never went back and cleaned it up :o. Also there is a threaded hole in the frame to put threaded stud or bolt for the prop valve - no drilling new holes.

(and that's a crappy cruise control bracket hanging off the accel linkage but another one of those things that works so why mess with it)

http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_191208.jpg

I stuck with the old fluid pressure brake light switch - installed it in the rear line and extended the wires down - works great. Lines look closer to the exhaust than they really are - about a foot away.
http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_191231.jpg


Nice set of punches - I use reverse punches for restoring the engine number plates on MG's. The are punched from the back so are raised letters on the plates. Thin aluminum plates though so doesn't have to be a very strong punch.

Eric

simplyconnected
01-30-2017, 12:07 PM
...After reading 15 threads on disk brake
conversions, it seemed no one has solved the issue of fitting a larger booster than an 8" dual diaphr...There are many ways to skin this cat. We know of a few ways to add more boost than an 8" dual diaphragm but none of them are offered at a reasonable in COST.
"...at a reasonable cost" is of utmost importance, otherwise the system can be an electric or power steering pressure booster.

I'm for any system that works well and I'm excited to see your new bracket and booster mounted and working on your Squarebird. More boost is a good thing in my book as well.

The truth is, and this isn't an excuse, we rarely have panic stops so we rarely use the full capability of our boosters. That's where Dkheld is coming from. He is happy using a booster that was designed for drum brakes and says it works just fine on Granada calipers. Truth be told, my '59 Galaxie came with manual brakes (as did millions of full size cars of the day) and folks were good with that.

In my opinion, there is only one supplier who sells a decent bolt-on system that works in a Squarebird BUT his price is too high. Regardless, some of our members who don't fabricate are happy to buy it.

We can buy an 8" dual-diaphragm with a one inch bore M/C AND a combination proportioning valve for $200 but it doesn't come with a firewall bracket. That's the problem, of which there are two possible practical solutions but both involve some fabrication: Make your own bracket (we have the drawings and two examples in service right now) OR, if your 'bird came with a firewall bracket, simply make two extension tubes and re-use it.

So again, I'm excited to see your large booster in action. Take lots of clear pictures of the setup when you get it working. Yes, it needs to be working. We went through many revisions on our bracket just to use the dual-8". We found, the more offset built into the bracket the more 'flex' and spongy-feel in the brake pedal.

Yes, ratios are a concern when designing your bracket but that also depends on two additional factors; the bore size of the M/C and the amount of booster assist. There is such a thing as, too much assist if stopping cannot be smooth and controlled under normal driving conditions. Some factory Chryslers fall into this category, in my opinion. The brake pedal was touchy and difficult to control. I hope that's a different discussion.

I use the dual-8" on Granada and on S-10 calipers in my full size Fords. They will put you through the windshield much the same as the brake performance of any modern car. - Dave

OX1
01-30-2017, 02:40 PM
Offset bracket looks like a good idea for the larger booster.
(man that is a whopper of a booster) http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20161219_201058.jpg
Hope everybody has their seat belts on when you step on the brakes:D

Yeah, fits well in my 79 bronco though, which needs all
the help it can get with 800+ lbs of wheels/tires. :D

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/93%20F350%20BOOSTER/DCP02845.JPG
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/SX%2043-S/2014-06-26_15-00-53_558.jpg


Only thing I could think of is that the bracket might tend to flex toward the engine when the brakes were applied???? I believe just adding a piece of flat metal from the back of the bracket

Good point. I would probably make some supports like
they had on the 70's trucks and 78/79 broncos.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kyCPssOb4EU/Uf8Z9nH6uWI/AAAAAAAAAv4/EqHC5gv5qT4/s1600/DSCN2644.JPG

Ultimately though, I would think bracket
flex would reduce with booster size increase.
(your leg pressure is less)

The booster is pulling against itself from the vac
and mounted to the MC. So I would think the
forces between only booster and MC don't
translate mostly to firewall/bracket.

I've even found the original 7 inch booster offers plenty of assist. Been using it for over 10 years now with no problems.
I used a similar proportioning valve on my system. Mine is a combo valve - balances perfectly.

Might want to check on a different master cyl. I bet that is the same one I am using if we were to cross-reference it. Pretty sure I bought the one designed for a Granada (since I was using Granada calipers) or the Lincoln Mark series cars (similar weight). Anyway the outlets are on the manifold/valve cover side so you need to make sharp bends to clear them plus your brake lines are hanging over the manifold absorbing the heat. Hasn't been a problem on mine but just something to think about. Believe the Mustang master cyl's has the outlets on the fender side.

I definitely prefer over boosted and extremely short
pedal travel, if I can get it. If I didn't care about having
engine compartment look sort of authentic, hydroboost
would already be in the plans, if not installed already
with a modified sag pump.........

I have a 70 bronco, probably about 400 lbs heavier
than the bird. I used 2000ish mustang HB (and mustang
prop valve), 77 stock front disk and rear disk off a linc
Mark VII. 70's lincoln saginaw pump with pressure modded
to about 1500PSI. That thing is touchy, but I like it. :)

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/70%20EB%20SPORT/ENGINE/REGASKET_%20PAINT/DONE/DCP03975.JPG

As mentioned in my booster thread, I am leaning towards
a booster/master combo from a 2WD F350 with 460.
It is 9-3/8 dia booster, 1-1/16 master and MC outlets
are on drivers side. Booster rod is pretty short also. It's
not exactly period correct, but at least it's from the 70's
and is ford "looking".

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/OBH3/503311/01305.oap?year=1979&make=Ford&model=F-350&vi=5006834&ck=Search_01305_5006834_5098&pt=01305&ppt=C0066


I also put my proportioning valve down on the frame rather than hung under the master cyl because of the heat issue.
I stuck with the old fluid pressure brake light switch - installed it in the rear line and extended the wires down - works great. Lines look closer to the exhaust than they really are - about a foot away.Eric

I leaning towards the 80's fox body prop valve.
Relativley easy to get NOS Ford item from Ebay,
and not that pricey.

Depending upon what I do with brake pedal,
I may try to incorporate a switch on the brake
pedal. I had considered removing internal booster
linkage and welding upper pivot on brake pedal.
Not sure how weldable the brake pedal is, but
it appears to be a forging.

I may also end up putting heat shield under the MC
and/or prop valve. 430 manifolds are way outboard,
almost covering the nuts on studs that hold shims
for doing wheel alignment.

Definitely appreciate the thoughts and pics. Gets
the mind going for sure.............:D

sidewalkman
01-30-2017, 03:51 PM
(and that's a crappy cruise control bracket hanging off the accel linkage but another one of those things that works so why mess with it)



I was wondering what that sink drain arrangement was down there. I take it you have aftermarket CC?

OX1
01-31-2017, 07:43 AM
There are many ways to skin this cat. We know of a few ways to add more boost than an 8" dual diaphragm but none of them are offered at a reasonable in COST.
"...at a reasonable cost" is of utmost importance, otherwise the system can be an electric or power steering pressure booster.

I'm for any system that works well and I'm excited to see your new bracket and booster mounted and working on your Squarebird. More boost is a good thing in my book as well.

The truth is, and this isn't an excuse, we rarely have panic stops so we rarely use the full capability of our boosters. That's where Dkheld is coming from. He is happy using a booster that was designed for drum brakes and says it works just fine on Granada calipers. Truth be told, my '59 Galaxie came with manual brakes (as did millions of full size cars of the day) and folks were good with that.

In my opinion, there is only one supplier who sells a decent bolt-on system that works in a Squarebird BUT his price is too high. Regardless, some of our members who don't fabricate are happy to buy it.

We can buy an 8" dual-diaphragm with a one inch bore M/C AND a combination proportioning valve for $200 but it doesn't come with a firewall bracket. That's the problem, of which there are two possible practical solutions but both involve some fabrication: Make your own bracket (we have the drawings and two examples in service right now) OR, if your 'bird came with a firewall bracket, simply make two extension tubes and re-use it.

So again, I'm excited to see your large booster in action. Take lots of clear pictures of the setup when you get it working. Yes, it needs to be working. We went through many revisions on our bracket just to use the dual-8". We found, the more offset built into the bracket the more 'flex' and spongy-feel in the brake pedal.

Yes, ratios are a concern when designing your bracket but that also depends on two additional factors; the bore size of the M/C and the amount of booster assist. There is such a thing as, too much assist if stopping cannot be smooth and controlled under normal driving conditions. Some factory Chryslers fall into this category, in my opinion. The brake pedal was touchy and difficult to control. I hope that's a different discussion.

I use the dual-8" on Granada and on S-10 calipers in my full size Fords. They will put you through the windshield much the same as the brake performance of any modern car. - Dave

Just curious, do you have a link to the SB bolt on that
you think is designed well? Always looking for hints.......

Being in NJ (high density population) and combining
the fact that 30% of people are not even looking at
the road these days, I hope to being able to stop in
in at least a highly aggressive fashion. I also prefer
highly boosted, extremely short travel brakes.

I've tried this F350 dual 9" and accompanying MC on
one of my 79 broncos and was not happy with it at all.
(that rig ended up getting 70 Linc HB and works as good
or better than a modern car or truck). Hoping this setup
proves more than just adequate.

But due to my preference of how I like brake feel, I suspect
I will not be describing this setup as "spectacular". I will
try to give it my best assessment from the eyes of others
though.

Also, what is your feeling on a combination valve vs a
proportioning valve? I know the 70's ford trucks have the
delay (metering valve) built into them to allow the drums
to catch up with the disks. Not sure if this was just a truck
thing, as the 80's fox body proportioning valve did away
with the metering part.

DKheld
01-31-2017, 05:16 PM
I was wondering what that sink drain arrangement was down there. I take it you have aftermarket CC?

:D

Yep - an old Sears unit - made by Dana Corp IIRC. "Back when" - Sears used to have an outlet near my house and I would stop in from time to time. Once they had 4-5 of them discontinued & CHEAP - like $20.Bought them all. Had one on an MGB and a Nissan 4x4 truck - worked perfect. Installed one on a 2wd Nissan truck and it would work but was so sensitive that it would jerk your head back when it accelerated. Turned the sensitivity all the way down it that fixed the jerking issue but it wouldn't hold a very constant speed on hills. Tried different levers on the accel shaft plus other stuff but never would work like the other two.

They had 2 models - one that created it's own vac and one that used engine vac from the car. Used one on the Tbird that uses engine vac. Works pretty well but if it needs to accelerate more than once or twice in a short period it runs out of vac pressure. Was planning on adding a reserve tank behind the pass fender like the one for the brake on the driver side. That's about the time the rear main seal failed and I had to swap engines (which led to manifold problems, and fuel pump problems and fuel tank problems and adding A/C problems and a busted radiator and tire problems and and :eek:)

So obviously I never got back to it.

Found an old pic of it mounted above the heater on the firewall.
http://media802.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20150112/b_145127.jpg



Henry - this is where I bought my Combo valve years ago - they were $100 back then - gone up a bit. Bet you can find the same thing cheaper elsewhere.
http://www.mpbrakes.com/accessories/valves/combination-valve-disc-drum-configuration-vl3360k

Geez - you guys in NJ have 70% of the people actually looking at the road?
Lucky you!
it's more like 70% of the people NOT looking at the road around here.

Eric

simplyconnected
01-31-2017, 06:02 PM
Just curious, do you have a link to the SB bolt on that you think is designed well?..No, I think the firewall bracket is designed properly. Nobody else offers one that fits a SB. The rest of the kit is MBM fare, readily available at more attractive prices. Here is the link:
http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset.html kit #9787 Sorry, no prices. Don't get me going. When you call, depending on who you get, the price is different. Just say'n. But they have a monopoly on that bracket and there aren't enough Squarebirds out there for anyone else to make them. Believe me, we've tried.

...30% of people are not even looking at
the road these days, I hope to being able to stop in at least a highly aggressive fashion...Yes, if you drive in competition with today's traffic of small cars, ALL with disk brakes.
Since "personal preference" can mean many things I will say, factory drum brakes (either manual or power) on a SB were ok when all the cars had drums but by today's standard they are crap. Those of us who retrofit to disks using either Scarebird brackets or Granada spindles are VERY happy. In fact so happy, nobody ever mentioned reverting back to 'original' because the difference is profound. Spectacular? No, but many times better than drum-performance. This brake pedal is not touchy, it has full travel and it will lock the wheels or produce a controlled stop. That's my kind of brake. Want less stroke? Since it's your system you are welcome to use a 1-1/8" master cylinder or change the pedal ratio. The pedal will feel harder but the stroke will be shorter. We tried that as well and didn't like it so I always recommend a one inch bore M/C. Truth is, calipers don't retract so they require less flow than the wheel cylinders they replaced. Less flow allows smaller (and more powerful) M/C bores for the same pedal stroke.

Also, what is your feeling on a combination valve vs a proportioning valve? I know the 70's ford trucks have the delay (metering valve) built into them to allow the drums to catch up with the disks..You just struck a nerve because some places are advising customers to omit the valve altogether. When the drums need adjustment, this will rear its ugly head. I will always advocate for using a combination proportioning valve because it does these important functions:

Ties the front and rear circuits together mechanically, using a piston between them.
Meters, meaning it applies rear brakes first, then disk. This is most useful in loose gravel, wet leaves, snow, etc., for maintaining steering while braking.
Proportions the rear brake, reducing pressure to the rear wheel cylinders.
Stops the loss of brake fluid if a line ruptures. The piston is shoved over by the 'pressure side' to shut off the ruptured side.
Turns on an 'emergency' idiot light when the center piston shifts to either side.

If the rear wheels stop too hard, simply replace with 3/4" wheel cylinders.
MBM offers two combination valves at the same money. One is a Ford-style and the other is a GM-style. I like the GM-style because the mounting holes are part of the casting, not an add-on bracket. Both valves have clear, unrestricted ports to the front (caliper) system because disk brakes require a lot more pressure than wheel cylinders. - Dave

OX1
02-01-2017, 10:04 PM
Starting fabbing up the booster bracket, in cardboard
anyway :D

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170201_155745a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170201_155759a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170201_155849a.jpg

Using 1/4 plate for everything, hoping to
reduce/eliminate any flex in the bracket at
least.

Got to use my 100 year old lathe, first
time I've done a part that was offset in
the chuck.

Since the plate for firewall is
not going to change no matter what else
I come up with, decided to start on it.
Not going to drill mount holes until I have
stock MC off for an accurate template.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170201_171403a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170201_180453a.jpg


Can't do much more until booster/MC arrives.
Ordered it from Orielly's online (closest store
is Conn) as my local chains could not get it
and neither amazon nor rock auto are lifetime
warantee. Not bad @ $144 shipped including
core cost.

OX1
02-06-2017, 10:59 PM
Got the F350 booster/master. Definitely larger
than the 9" GM booster my buddy gave me.
But mostly, it is longer front to back, which
does nothing but make it harder to install.

Anyway, it fits, but will be tight.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205637a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205725a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205910a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_210005a.jpg

Clearances are tight......

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205739a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205750a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_205935a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170206_210139a.jpg

After measuring for hours, I came up with a Fulcrum
bracket that will be 4.25/2.25 or 1.88 ratio, making
my pedal ratio 6.23/1.88 or 3.31. Stock with the
bracket I had, was 2.88.

simplyconnected
02-07-2017, 12:30 AM
...Anyway, it fits, but will be tight. ...After measuring for hours, I came up with a Fulcrum
bracket that will be 4.25/2.25 or 1.88 ratio, making
my pedal ratio 6.23/1.88 or 3.31. Stock with the
bracket I had, was 2.88.Now, that is wonderful news. Let's talk about cost:
Can you estimate the cost of:
The firewall bracket including steel and welding?
The brake pedal rod including the adjustment portion?
All the necessary hardware for the booster/master setup?

Will you need to cut or alter the firewall?

And finally, add the expense of the whole firewall assembly including combination proportioning valve, booster and M/C to the cost of your fabrications. Got a guesstimate? - Dave

OX1
02-07-2017, 10:18 AM
I make all my own brackets. I have never had a
part laser cut. What did it cost for Howard to have
his made?

I'm going to say $25 per plate for flat
laser cut plates? Could put tabs in side plates
to fit in booster/firewall plates, to keep brackets
"square" during welding.

4 plates -$100
Welding -$50

Theoretically, you could have side plates bent
90 degrees on either end so they bolt to firewall
and booster. Then you only have to weld lower
end of fulcrum setup.

4 plates , no welding required -$200

Need two plates for fulcrum.

2 plates - $50

Fulcrum will need spacer tubes. This one
for pivot on bottom -$10

https://www.mcmaster.com/mvb/library/20150420/92415a141l.gif

and spacers for lateral change of booster
rod to brake pedal rod (May need to cut
in half each one)

https://www.mcmaster.com/mvb/library/20150420/92415a120l.gif

Qty 2 @ $7 each
Weld lower end of fulcrum -$25

The brake pedal rod I am using is from the SSB kit I
already had. If I had to make one ,
I would get a long rod 80+ booster from junkyard
and cut off booster rod and thread it. Use
a long coupling nut with locknuts or tac weld.

Used booster $15-25??

Us you choice of solid female threaded rod end
from McMasterr-Carr to fulcrum end.

https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvB/contents/gfx/large/1581kp1l.png?ver=1314262224

Qty 1 - 15$

Booster end is designed to connect to a
factory fulcrum setup, so hole is small,
maybe 1/4 inch, not like you typical
3/4ish inch hole that normally connects
to most brake pedals.

Cost of booster mod - $0

Booster/MC was $145 shipped.

Your choice of comb valve.
Used ford truck valve is $30-50
New valve that most use is $60?

Brake line material and fittings?

So looking at about $550-600?


Now, that is wonderful news. Let's talk about cost:
Can you estimate the cost of:
The firewall bracket including steel and welding?
The brake pedal rod including the adjustment portion?
All the necessary hardware for the booster/master setup?

Will you need to cut or alter the firewall?

And finally, add the expense of the whole firewall assembly including combination proportioning valve, booster and M/C to the cost of your fabrications. Got a guesstimate? - Dave

simplyconnected
02-07-2017, 08:00 PM
I make all my own brackets. I have never had a part laser cut. What did it cost for Howard to have his made?..I'm not sure whether Howard had his water-jet cut or laser. I know he said a CNC machine bent his side pieces.

Howard made two sets and had them both (hexavalent) chrome plated. Most of the engine compartment parts on his 'Betsy' are chrome plated.

Howard used one set and Ray Clark is using the other.
Howard lives in Canada, next to Niagara Falls, so he may have had some work done in NY state.

Both are using dual-diaphragm 8" boosters and combination proportioning valves. - Dave

OX1
02-08-2017, 08:58 PM
I'm not sure whether Howard had his water-jet cut or laser. I know he said a CNC machine bent his side pieces.

Howard made two sets and had them both (hexavalent) chrome plated. Most of the engine compartment parts on his 'Betsy' are chrome plated.

Howard used one set and Ray Clark is using the other.
Howard lives in Canada, next to Niagara Falls, so he may have had some work done in NY state.

Both are using dual-diaphragm 8" boosters and combination proportioning valves. - Dave

I looked around a little and it seems my estimates
for brackets may be a bit low. Looks like minimum
$60-100 just for setup (waterjet). Does seem
they base it on run time after that, or inches cut and
these brackets should not take more than 15 minutes for
all of them I suspect.

Anyway, fabricated the 4 main bracket plates. Still
need to drill some holes for "pin" access in bracket
side plates, once I figure out exact spacing of
fulcrum setup. I'd say they cost me about $15
in steel...........:D

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170208_203347a.jpg

OX1
02-09-2017, 06:06 PM
Got the access holes done in the side plates
and tac welded it all together.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170617a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_171013a.jpg

Final clearances. I set it closer to inner
fender than valve cover, figured fender
should not be moving much. Valve cover
not going to ever come off with moving
booster out of way though.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170739a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170759a.jpg

Plenty of clearance for shift linkage

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170851a.jpg

MC should be far enough away from
exh manifold, but I might make a heat
shield anyway.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_171559a.jpg

Last check is the hood. Inner support
seemed close to MC cap. Tried the old
grease test, but it looks OK.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170348a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/TAC%20WELDED/20170209_170530a.jpg

OX1
02-10-2017, 11:59 AM
Had a different idea for the fulcrum
setup last night. Drew up a quick sketch.
This would sort of, put both pedal and
booster rods in double shear, and should
strengthen the entire setup.

Hope to get this mostly knocked out
this weekend...........

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/scan0006a.jpg

DKheld
02-10-2017, 01:52 PM
You better hurry - all that snow you guys just got may melt - about May - :D

The combo valve works terrific on my particular set up - maybe you could put yours down on the frame like I did but hide it with a heat shield / cover of some type?

But heck - with that jumbo jet booster in there I don't think you would see anything below it anyway.

Excellent work - looking really good.

Eric

OX1
02-13-2017, 07:29 AM
HA!!, already gone, thank you Mr. (Miss??) El-nino, nina, whatever.......... :D

I'd like to use the old cast iron looking
comb valve, for looks. But as you mentioned,
who is ever going to see it, as I probably will
put it under the booster.

Thanks for the kudos on the job, got the fulcrum
setup fab'd and welded this weekend. Hard to
believe first car shows are a little over a month away.
Have to start pounding out the suspension and disk
brake part of this soon......

Found these factory like Split Flanged Sleeve
Bearing @ McMaster Carr. Luckily for me, they
are about 20 minutes away from my house. Real
nice I can order something @ 5 AM, and go pick
it up by lunch. Not too much they don't have and
all real good quality.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_113403a.jpg

https://www.mcmaster.com/#1281n16/=16c311c

all fab'd up

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_120341a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_120352a.jpg

Needed one of these

https://www.mcmaster.com/#92415A928

and two of these

https://www.mcmaster.com/#92415A917

Cut to length and drilled out to 1/2 inch and 3/8
inch respectively. Unfortunately, could not find
the ID/OD combo I wanted, so had to drill.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_120858a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_120944a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170212_121032a.jpg






You better hurry - all that snow you guys just got may melt - about May - :D

The combo valve works terrific on my particular set up - maybe you could put yours down on the frame like I did but hide it with a heat shield / cover of some type?

But heck - with that jumbo jet booster in there I don't think you would see anything below it anyway.

Excellent work - looking really good.

Eric

DKheld
02-13-2017, 09:26 AM
Glad to hear the bad weather didn't hang around too long. We had a record high yesterday of 72. Car shows and cruise-in's are just around the corner.

No problem on the kudos - well deserved.
I'm just jealous - wish the bracket I made to move the booster out for the A/C install turned out as well.

Pic of my bracket when I was installing it. Just a small spacer actually between the firewall and original booster that I kept. Was just needed to move the booster out to clear the original type A/C evap box I was installing on the firewall ....so a little different build than yours. Couple of pieces of angle iron welded and a grinder to whip it into shape.
:o


http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20110627/b_195610.jpg

I was trying to replicate the original bracket/spacer available from dealer. Even came with a longer pedal "rod".

http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120910/b_070512.jpg

Eric

OX1
02-13-2017, 09:51 AM
Couple questions just for kicks.

Do you know what the reduction ratio was for that fulcrum setup?

What was your MC from and did it require modification
to fit with original booster?

Also, I forget 352 or 430?


Glad to hear the bad weather didn't hang around too long. We had a record high yesterday of 72. Car shows and cruise-in's are just around the corner.

No problem on the kudos - well deserved.
I'm just jealous - wish the bracket I made to move the booster out for the A/C install turned out as well.


Eric

DKheld
02-13-2017, 11:38 AM
Mine is 90% original as far as the booster goes. Well - 90% original Ford. I had my original booster rebuilt when I rebuilt the drum system but then bought a used unit to send off for modification rather than modify my original one when I decided to convert to disc's.

Kept the original booster because at the time I was thinking I might someday win the lottery and want to restore the car to like new original condition. :rolleyes: Oh brother was I ever dreaming.

Mods are the little spacer between the original bracket and booster (pretty hard to see in the pic). Basically it just moved the original system up and out about 1 3/4 inches which is why the kit came with a new longer pedal rod. The original booster face was replaced with one from a '62ish Lincoln. Apparently Ford/Linc/Merc used that Bendix booster on later cars but changed the face to accept the 2 bolt style master cyl.

No idea on the fulcrum ratio but that is the original bracket riveted to the original (but rebuilt) booster. Sent it to Power Brake Booster Exchange in Oregon (aka Booster Dewy). He must know what he's doing and use quality parts - been 10-12 years and it still works fine. He also did the change on the front only because no one else had a clue what he used to make the switch. Not much info on the web back then either.

http://media800.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20141231/111333.jpg

Master Cyl is a Mustang or possibly Lincoln Mark series unit. Can't put my hands on the receipt at the moment.
Looks like some numbers on the end are 1506 and 60101?

Yea - 352 - My Dad bought it brand spankin' new (but probably a leftover model late in '60 or maybe early '61). In this pic it has a 430 air cleaner (different snorkle). I had drilled some holes for a PCV system in the air cleaner and once again didn't want to modify the original one.

http://media301.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130515/b_100351.jpg
http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20111017/b_112707.jpg
http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20090219/b_061824.jpg

edit:
Ah ha - found a pic of my home-made shade-tree bracket. Bought a used pedal rod from Carl Heller and extended it. My bracket didn't move the system up - only out so it was easier to modify the pedal rod.
http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20110625/194248.jpg

simplyconnected
02-13-2017, 11:46 AM
...After measuring for hours, I came up with a Fulcrum bracket that will be 4.25/2.25 or 1.88 ratio, making my pedal ratio 6.23/1.88 or 3.31. Stock with the
bracket I had, was 2.88.I can tell you that the ratio we came up with was 1.14:1 for our fulcrum. We used the stock brake pedal hole. Again, the booster is a dual diaphragm 8" that fits either the 430 or 352, A/c or not. - Dave

OX1
02-13-2017, 03:43 PM
The original booster face was replaced with one from a '62ish Lincoln. Apparently Ford/Linc/Merc used that Bendix booster on later cars but changed the face to accept the 2 bolt style master cyl.

Master Cyl is a Mustang or possibly Lincoln Mark series unit. Can't put my hands on the receipt at the moment.
Looks like some numbers on the end are 1506 and 60101?

Yea - 352 - My Dad bought it brand spankin' new (but probably a leftover model late in '60 or maybe early '61).

Ah ha - found a pic of my home-made shade-tree bracket. Bought a used pedal rod from Carl Heller and extended it. My bracket didn't move the system up - only out so it was easier to modify the pedal rod.


OK, so it looks like the same MC ford used in most everything in the 60/70's and even early 80's.

My dad bought my mom a 60 in 60 too. He still has it, but it is a total basket case.
I thought of restoring, but he is 87 now and may not be driving too long.
This is why I have to get disk brakes done before spring, so he can drive it here and there.
I don't trust him with the stock brakes as bad as they were.

So it is the brake pedal rod that moves everything up a decent amount, vs the fulcrum setup.
My brake booster rod does angle up somewhat, near the top of the factory hole in firewall.

I can tell you that the ratio we came up with was 1.14:1 for our fulcrum. We used the stock brake pedal hole. Again, the booster is a dual diaphragm 8" that fits either the 430 or 352, A/c or not. - Dave

So the overall is 5.54. That's man brake ratio territory, but I guess it gives you enough leverage,
if you don't mind the large pedal travel. I guess if master and calipers are also smaller, probably
works well enough. Tough with brakes being subjective. One guys great brakes are anothers
guys horrible brakes. :p

simplyconnected
02-14-2017, 01:59 AM
...So the overall is 5.54. That's man brake ratio territory, but I guess it gives you enough leverage,
if you don't mind the large pedal travel. I guess if master and calipers are also smaller, probably works well enough. Tough with brakes being subjective. One guys great brakes are anothers guys horrible brakes...There are a few things we need to talk about. First, my brakes are very easy for any lady to operate. We use a one-inch master cylinder bore. Our S-10 calipers (and Granada) have 2-1/2" pistons. They work very similar to my wife's Ford Escape and they will lock up the wheels.

Next, I use the term "fulcrum" very loosely. A fulcrum point is a center pivot, much like a kid's see-saw where both ends pivot about the middle.

Our center link is fixed to the firewall bracket and it pivots at the bottom bolt, not the center pin. All motion from that bottom bolt is measured as an arc, where the middle pin moves about half the distance as the top pin. You can see this if you make a paper model and try it. Another illustration is to use a 'school compass.' Start on a vertical with the pivot point always at the bottom. Move the pencil end drawing the arc at the top pin, then draw a line at the end of that arc back to the pivot. Now draw the center pin arc to that same line.

Even though the angle of theta still remains the same, the length of your center link makes a huge difference in how 'flat' the arcs are. The arc travel or length ratio moves exponentially, (like F-stops on a camera). At 'vertical' the travel is nearly the same but as the travel becomes longer, the ratio changes, where a small center pin distance equals a huge top pin distance as the arc lengthens.

So how do you overcome this? Two ways:
Either start with the center link 'cocked back' so the center of motion is vertical to the bottom pin OR make your center link as long as possible. In other words, drop the bottom pin so 1/2" of top pin travel makes a flat arc.

All this manipulation of the center link angle/length will vary the feel of your brake pedal because the ratios automatically change with travel distance. Not so with a fulcrum.

If I lost you, make a long (10") paper center link on top of a standard sheet of paper with lines. Kick the bottom pivot out so it is vertical with the RH edge of the paper. Now, lean the top back towards the LH edge of the loose-leaf and draw a line to the pivot point. As the top pin moves forward (right) each 1/2", draw a line down to the pivot, repeat until link is vertical. Now remove the link and measure the center pin travel at each line you drew. This is your brake pedal rod. The distance/ratio (from the LH edge of your paper) becomes longer at each 1/2" until vertical. That also means, the same foot pressure becomes greater at the top pin. - Dave

DKheld
02-14-2017, 09:50 AM
If I were converting today I would definitely go with the Scarebird brackets, rotors and calipers Dave points folks to on the forum - basically stay away from the Granada stuff. It was great 12 years ago when there wasn't anything else available but different story now.

As for the booster - hummm. Be a hard choice. Probably would have the original rebuilt and converted (or do it myself if I could find the parts). As Dave always mentions - that would be a bad choice in terms of repair costs and down time (points well taken) but it would be a little more original looking.

Second choice would be to hack the original booster off and use the OEM bracket with the new dual 8 inch booster. Either way - using the original pedal bracket to keep the pedal height where it is originally and not change the original pedal geometry.

On the British cars I grew up driving the brake pedal was always about 1/2 inch above the resting point of the gas pedal so that's where I feel comfortable with my brake pedal. I can't see how folks can drive some of the cars they have converted where the brake pedal is 6-8 inches above the gas pedal.

Not saying your build is wrong, the bracket will never work or anything like that - just sort of re-thinking mine.

As for how they would feel????

Never driven one with the Dual 8 inch booster although I'd like to just to see the difference.

My brakes feel a lot like the original drum set-up. Not light but not heavy either. Guess to compare it to something modern-ish it feels like the '96 Ford E150 Conversion/wheelchair van I used to have. Pretty much the same force needed to stop the van and my car now and the brake pedal is exactly where I like it.

http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20170214/b_090948.jpg

(yes you can make fun of the old Firestone white floor mats my Dad bought 40 years ago :D I just recently replaced them with a set of the new style black ones)

Ok - enough rambling - better go get those Valentines Day flowers....:eek:

Eric

simplyconnected
02-14-2017, 12:14 PM
Henry has some good ideas. We can all use more boost but there is such a thing as too much boost. I'm not saying his booster is too much because I never tried it.

All boosters require an initial pedal pressure just to open the valve in the booster. This includes the treadle-vac. Beyond that, things get different real fast. And remember, we don't always slam on our brakes but rather, we use only necessary pressure to come to a controlled stop.

In a manual brake setup, master cylinders don't determine brake pedal height, the pedal stop does. The Owner's Manual specifies certain 'jiggle room' for the pedal rod which shows the pedal and M/C are totally divorced.

Power brakes are slightly different because the pedal rod connects with thru-holes on both ends. The booster has a healthy spring that returns all the brake parts including the pedal, but that same booster is divorced from the master with the same 'jiggle room' and a jack screw for adjustment. It's that initial booster return-spring pressure that the pedal pressure must overcome before booster motion and assist happens.

All the ratios and linkage determines how the brake pedal feels. Again, we rarely use more than half of our braking hp but full capability must be sufficient to lock your wheels and it must be in reserve.

Is there enough boost? Test your brakes (with no one around) on dry pavement and do a panic stop at ~40 mph. If you cannot lock your tires there isn't enough boost. Do this on brakes that are 'bedded-in', not on brand new installations. My Scarebird/S-10 brakes on our Fordor Galaxie does lock the wheels using a dual 8".

When my brakes were manual (yes, that's how it came from Ford), standing on the pedal would not lock my wheels. By today's standards that's scary especially for women drivers. By 1959 standards, it was typical of all family size cars.

Eric, I wish we lived closer so you could drive my car. The power rack and pinion steering is great (especially in parking lots) and the power brakes easily stop 3,700-lbs.
BTW, your original firewall bracket already raised the booster enough. The 'dual-8' booster is the same diameter as yours but it is longer. Did you happen to save your original brake pedal rod? - Dave

OX1
02-16-2017, 10:41 AM
First, my brakes are very easy for any lady to operate.

Next, I use the term "fulcrum" very loosely.

All motion from that bottom bolt is measured as an arc,
So how do you overcome this?- Dave

With a 5+:1 brake pedal ratio and dual diaphram booster,
I'm sure they are. For kicks I measured gas to brake
pedal and ratios of everything I own

vehicle-----------------gas to brake (in)-----------pedal ratio

70 Bronco
(orig man brakes,----- 5.25--------------------------6.5
now mustang HB)

79 Bronco---------------2.75--------------------------3.75

86 Capri 5.0------------2.75--------------------------4.3

03 EVO8------------------2------------------------------3.86
(AWD 4 cyl turbo jap
"supercar" with 4
wheel brembos)

05 Dodge 2500 diesel-----3----------------------------4.76
(7700 lbs curb weight)

14 Stang GT----------------2.5---------------------------3.8

15 Fusion AWD-------------2------------------------------3.2

14 Escape AWD-------------2.5----------------------------3.75

On average, my final pedal ratio of 3.19 seems a bit light,
but even back in 79, a power brake pedal ratio over 5
was probably excessive (again comparatively). Interesting
that my dodge has HB and a high pedal ratio, but @
7700 lbs, it needs all the help it can get I guess.

Yeah, I here ya. Classic, "fulcrum" or Class 1 lever, has
fulcrum in the middle, but a class two lever still has a
fulcrum, just not in the middle. If we called it Class 1 or
2 lever, no one would know what the heck we are
talking about :D

http://campus.murraystate.edu/academic/faculty/tderting/atlases2009/runyon/wheelbarrow.JPG

One of the side benefits of a big booster/MC, low pedal
ratio setup is reduced linkage motion. Minimizing
unintended vertical motions, on a vertically set up
pivoting linkage, that you want horizontal motion out
of, is easier if the linkage motion is short.

As anyone who has constructed any braking system,
almost from scratch, knows, it's one big compromise
after another (especially in these birds that nothing fits).
Ideally, we should be redesigning steering col/brake
pedal support and re-engineering brake pedal so you
don't need "fuclrum" setup for any reason. You'd
still need booster with a REALLY long rod, as there
is no good way to get booster near firewall with stock
shift linkage.

Anyway as mentioned, I highly prefer big
boost, short pedal travel, so that is what I shoot for.
You would think with a 6:1 pedal, Hydroboost and a
modified high pressure sag pump in my little bronco, it
would be "too much boost". But for me it's fine. I like
the fact I can modulate from light braking to lockup,
with very "fine" pedal inputs. Many others may hate
the low effort, short travel pedal, but I love it.

If I were converting today I would definitely go with the Scarebird brackets, rotors and calipers

On the British cars I grew up driving the brake pedal was always about 1/2 inch above the resting point of the gas pedal

Ok - enough rambling - better go get those Valentines Day flowers....:eek:

Eric

I'm keeping those brackets in mind as a backup in case
neither the 77 bird or Granada stuff I have works to
my liking. It could also get me a smaller caliper if I
feel I need it, after I get what I have now up and
running.

I agree, don't like huge distances between gas and brake
pedal. That said, I don't recall cursing my 70 bronco every
time I drive it and that is more than double most of
today's vehicles. I did not measure bird before pulling it
apart, but I'm pretty sure it is not over 5 inches.

How did she like the flowers??? :D

In a manual brake setup, master cylinders don't determine brake pedal height

All the ratios and linkage determines how the brake pedal feels. Again, we rarely use more than half of our braking hp

If you cannot lock your tires there isn't enough boost.

If your booster rod is adjustable, you can set pedal
to your liking. As you said, this will affect overall
mechanics, by where you adjust pedal too. Whether
that brake pedal height affects brake feel or not, probably
matters less on pedal starting point, than it does on brake
pedal travel.

simplyconnected
02-16-2017, 02:14 PM
...As anyone who has constructed any braking system, almost from scratch, knows, it's one big compromise after another (especially in these birds that nothing fits).
Ideally, we should be redesigning steering col/brake pedal support and re-engineering brake pedal so you don't need "fuclrum" setup for any reason. You'd still need booster with a REALLY long rod, as there is no good way to get booster near firewall with stock shift linkage...

...If your booster rod is adjustable, you can set pedal to your liking. As you said, this will affect overall mechanics, by where you adjust pedal too. Whether that brake pedal height affects brake feel or not, probably matters less on pedal starting point, than it does on brake pedal travel.The bottom line is, whatever compromises you do, the M/C shall have full stroke capability. Otherwise your pedal will hit the floor before the piston stroke is fully extended. So, start from there.

The problem with Squarebirds is that the firewall M/C hole is too low. It's ok for a manual M/C, but any booster will hit the shift linkage. That's why Ford's firewall bracket raises the booster. Secondly, because it is raised, the link (your lever) needs room to move the booster input rod. That moves the booster away from the firewall.

Ratios were not that hard to figure given M/C stroke and pedal limits. You may have missed my point regarding placement of the bottom bolt on your bracket and how that also affects ratios.

The OEM setup used an offset pedal bolt to adjust the rod. That's why the hockey stick has fixed holes on both ends. - Dave

OX1
02-16-2017, 08:53 PM
Think I am OK on pedal height, set it about 2-3 inches
above gas pedal (just intuitively). Does anyone know
what it is supposed to be stock (or can someone
measure?).

I was looking at the steer col/brake pedal bracket while
I was under the dash 100 times in the past couple weeks.
It does not appear that it would be that difficult to get
out if/when I wanted to modify it, but I might be
missing something on how it comes out.

I thought you were pointing out that when the
fulcrum rotates on either side of vertical (assuming
it points straight up), it will lose height as it rotates
and due to that, could affect pedal feel and/or
ratio (dynamically speaking). Yes??

I was wondering what that offset cam was. On my
parts car, it was loose. Must have made the pedal
height infinitely variable every time the brakes where
used :eek:. I assume it stays put due to friction when
tightened. I considered welding it in one place, but
maybe I'll leave it for additional adjustment.


The bottom line is, whatever compromises you do, the M/C shall have full stroke capability. Otherwise your pedal will hit the floor before the piston stroke is fully extended. So, start from there.

The problem with Squarebirds is that the firewall M/C hole is too low. It's ok for a manual M/C, but any booster will hit the shift linkage. That's why Ford's firewall bracket raises the booster. Secondly, because it is raised, the link (your lever) needs room to move the booster input rod. That moves the booster away from the firewall.

Ratios were not that hard to figure given M/C stroke and pedal limits. You may have missed my point regarding placement of the bottom bolt on your bracket and how that also affects ratios.

The OEM setup used an offset pedal bolt to adjust the rod. That's why the hockey stick has fixed holes on both ends. - Dave

DKheld
02-17-2017, 08:35 AM
I'll measure the pedal height this weekend but won't be able to post until next week (darn secure areas).

My brake pedal is almost even with the accel pedal - that nice 1/2 inch higher that I like. Seems it's always been that way but the accel pedal is adjustable too.

That offset cam bolt does adjust the pedal but not by much - believe it was about 1 inch total. I just loved being upside down and backwards under there.

From this old pic you can see my cam bolt has a nut on the back - I put a star lock washer on it also - probably because I'm overly cautious. There is also a nylon ring that fits over the bolt and in the pedal. Keeps from having the metal bolt against the metal pedal and preventing wear I guess.

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100421/b_180730.jpg

(and my firewall seal was slid all the way forward to the neutral safety switch in this pic so disregard that)

Eric

(oh - funny story on the flowers - stopped a a roadside stand that advertised doz roses for $9.99 - turns out they were small carved wooden roses "hand carved in Canada" for $9.99 the real ones were $24.95/doz. I opted for some real ones from another place - she liked them a lot. Almost bought the wooden ones just to give her and see the reaction but didn't feel like digging splinters out of my head after she hit me with them)

DKheld
02-22-2017, 08:40 AM
Measuring from the floor to the upper right corner of the top part of the brake pedal I get 4 3/4 inches.

Gas pedal height is 3 3/4 inches directly across from the upper right corner of the brake pedal.

My carpet was in place but floor mat removed.

OX1
02-22-2017, 03:15 PM
From this old pic you can see my cam bolt has a nut on the back - I put a star lock washer on it also -

(oh - funny story on the flowers - stopped a a roadside stand that advertised doz roses for $9.99 - turns out they were small carved wooden roses "hand carved in Canada"

I also just noticed you do not have the funky internal
booster brake pedal. Appears yours is more like a normal
one used even today.

Good call on the roses, although they were "imported", right :D


Measuring from the floor to the upper right corner of the top part of the brake pedal I get 4 3/4 inches.

Gas pedal height is 3 3/4 inches directly across from the upper right corner of the brake pedal.

My carpet was in place but floor mat removed.

Thanks, about where I set mine when I was messing
around with linkages and pedal ratio. Speaking of pedal
ratios, that adjustable cam could actually be used for
pedal ratio adjustment instead of pedal height adjustment.

Setting cam up, you get 13.5/2 or 6.75, setting cam down,
you get 13.5/2.25 or 6. With my current fulcrum, that put
my overall pedal ratio range from 3.19 to 3.59.

Was looking at mechanical brake switches. At first
I was thinking of going with what ford used in the
60's through the 80's (at least).

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/dt69nova/2011-09-27_194742_pic1.jpg

Changed my mind when I realized pin size and brake
pedal rod had to be pretty specific sizes and arrangement
to get that to work well. Decided on the 70's ford
truck switch, which is highly adjustable and can be
mounted in any bracket you can drill a half in hole in.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/l4sAAOxyeZNTVj3P/$_35.JPG?set_id=2


Also lets me keep the brake pedal cam for ratio
adjustment down the line. Still need to check and see if
original pressure switch is NO or NC. I believe either
mechanical switches are NO.

DKheld
02-22-2017, 05:13 PM
Looking for something else but ran across my info on the master cyl I used - part # 10-1518. Fits a Lincoln Mark series - 1 inch bore - works - although the outlets are on the engine side.

OEM fluid brake light switch is NO - I'm still using that style plumbed into the rear line (in fact as far as I know it's the original switch !!!)

Believe Dave has converted his Galaxie to a mechanical brake light switch (either that or possibly he was helping someone convert).

Made a 2.5 hour trip in mine this weekend. At the end of the drive - either the heater core or the heater control valve started dripping coolant on my new floor mat on the passenger side :mad:. Could be the seal.

It never ends.

simplyconnected
02-22-2017, 06:07 PM
I'm going to lead you around the barn, here...
Most brake light switches (and turn signal switches) are barely 'heavy' enough. Then, folks start adding trailer lights, they customize the number of brake lights, etc. I'm all for that as long as provisions are made in advance. The Squarebird brake light sw. is the same as my Harley-Davidson's, which turns on exactly one brake light.

Our Galaxie uses a simple switch I robbed from a computer mouse (because the 'right click' switch is rarely ever used). These switches are very reliable but also small. Ok, but they are plenty big enough to turn on a relay coil. Relays are cheap! With a plug-in socket, the whole sha-bang costs under five bucks and the contacts are good for upwards of 30-amps. An 1157 bulb draws ~1-amp, so there's no limit to the number of add-on lamps.

I had my brake pedal support on the bench because I changed from a two-pedal stick shift to a one-pedal C-O-M. I mounted the switch using a simple bracket with adjustment capability, drilled and tapped into the support bracket.

When the brake pedal is at rest, it pushes the momentary plunger in. When the brake pedal is depressed, the N.C. contacts pass power to energize a relay coil. It's that simple.

(I love using relays because they come with Normally Open AND Normally Closed contacts for my convenience and flexibility. I have a circuit using two relays to replace the old Ford 4-wire window motors with a modern two-wire motor with electrical interlock built in, in case up and down are both called for.)

So the brake lights are fed from N.O. relay contacts. I also fused them separately because I'm getting power from the yellow (non-fused) wire. My system is now three years old and it works just like you would expect; step on the brake pedal and lights come on regardless of key position.

There's something else I do...
Most solid state devices need full voltage but there is no wire under the hood with full voltage from the key switch. Well, there is now. Remember those two wires from the old OEM brake switch? I converted one to be on with the key switch with full voltage for Pertronix, electric choke, electric cooling fan, etc. The wires are skinny but again, plenty big enough to energize a relay coil. The contacts are fed directly from the battery and the coil is controlled by the key. It works like a charm. I invite all questions. - Dave

OX1
02-24-2017, 03:38 PM
Lincoln Mark series - 1 inch bore
OEM fluid brake light switch is NO
dripping coolant on my new floor mat on the passenger side :mad:.
It never ends.

Thanks again. Looks like I could use this 1” MC,

http://www.opticatonline.com/part/cardone-select-13-1676-brake-master-cylinder#drive-type:8

again one of the changes I could make if
I don’t like my brake feel or performance when I’m
done.

Yes, it does never end. Spend most of my
life keeping up after a whole bunch of vehicles, but
I enjoy upgrading and fabbing on cars and trucks
more than almost anything else. :)


An 1157 bulb draws ~1-amp, so there's no limit to the number of add-on lamps. <--This should read, "Our Galaxie uses a simple switch I robbed from a computer mouse (because the 'right click' switch is rarely ever used). These switches are very reliable but also small. Ok, but they are plenty big enough to turn on a relay coil. Relays are cheap! With a plug-in socket, the whole sha-bang costs under five bucks and the contacts are good for upwards of 30-amps. An 1157 bulb draws ~1-amp, so there's no limit to the number of add-on lamps. Without using a relay, most brake switches are designed for only a few amps, total.

I had my brake pedal support on the bench because I changed...
So the brake lights are fed from N.O. relay contacts. <--yes, from a relay I SUPPLIED. This is different from OEM.
I converted one to be on with the key switch with full voltage for Pertronix <--again, I'm talking about an OEM brake switch WIRE that I re-purposed.

Squarebirds have two brake light bulbs, yes?? So, pretty
much the same as the vehicle that switch is coming
from. I agree that overkill is great, but I’m probably
going to wire in that truck switch just like the factory did.


Have owned a lot of those trucks over 30 years and
can't say I've ever seen one fail (actually, come to
think of it, don't think I've ever had a brake light
switch fail on me on any car I've ever owned).

Don’t recall at this point which wire I used for my
Pertronix, but I will check it out again now that you
bring it up.

I know the firewall resister right in the
area of the rakes I’ve been messing with was not
hooked up when I got car. I think coil was getting full
12 volts and I just hooked up Pertronix there.

So, bought this powder coat kit from Eastwood.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/POWDER%20COAT/20170223_123417a.jpg

and made this "powder" booth

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/POWDER%20COAT/20170223_145205a.jpg

Part welded, sandblasted, and ready for powder.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/POWDER%20COAT/20170223_142142a.jpg

Had done a couple small parts as a test and they
came out almost perfect. Figured It was pretty easy
and I was now an "expert". :p Attempted the main
booster/fulcrum bracket next.

Overall, came out nice, but certainly not perfect.
Got a little carried away with too thick coating of
the powder, which made a couple blotches here and
there.

This part is hard to do and corners, internal
surfaces, and holes can all create electrostatic
build up and then seem to not want to “take” the
powder. So in those areas I had to lay it on, which
created some high spots. Overall still looks pretty
nice........

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/DONE/20170223_173220a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/DONE/20170223_173233a.jpg

Painted the booster as I was not sure it would deal
with 400 degrees in the oven too well. Also painted
the MC with Eastwoods MC paint. Supposedly
has SS particles in it to make it resistant to brake
fluid. It held up to MC bleeding and dribbling brake
fluid on the paint multiple times on my 86 Capri that
I used that paint on a while back.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170223_173155a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170223_191728a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170223_173340a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170223_173424a.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/FULCRUM/20170223_173155a.jpg

OX1
03-10-2017, 03:24 PM
Finally got the pedal adjustment worked out.
Tremendous amount of fiddling and measuring.
Even had to install fulcrum and booster 3 times
before I was happy.

Little higher than I wanted, but the gas pedal
is so low, you really can't put the brake pedal
much closer to it and still assume you can
get 3/4-1" MC travel.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_210629a.jpg

Firewall cleaned and painted.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/FIREWALL/20170304_152344a.jpg


Bracket/booster/MC installed.
I made two support brackets to mount inside
the car.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/20170306_182224a.jpg

Not much fun trying to hold bolt heads in engine
compartment and tighten locknuts under the dash.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET%20MC%20INSTALLED/20170309_210739a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BOOSTER%20BRACKET/DONE/20170309_193958a.jpg


Funny how removing half of factory vac line
to booster (right where rubber connection point was)
and the slightest of bends, it ends up here.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/F350%20BOOSTER/20170309_194025a.jpg

Made two brackets for the brake light switch.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170306_182232a.jpg

Tried, but could not get the pin out from brake
pedal, so had to drill all the holes in place.
Good thing for little used, cheap tools, from HF

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170304_184216a.jpg

Switch with larger adjustment nuts

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170306_182238a.jpg


Installed

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_205257a.jpg

Ran wiring inside and used 7/8 plastic plug

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_203626a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_204348a.jpg

Bracket to actuate switch installed.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_210320a.jpg

Works...........:D
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170309_210506a.jpg

Cut off and re-threaded end of
bolt that connects both parts of brake
pedal togther.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/BRAKE%20PEDAL%20AND%20SWITCH/20170306_182219a.jpg

Opened up my used combination valve.
Was a mess in there and the bleeder pin
was seized. Decided my need for good brakes
wins out over my need for old looking parts.

Ordered on of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262710752235


Same one everyone uses, but it comes in black.
Supposed to be here Sat. Just have to find some
of the softer brake line that's been discussed
here and there so I can start plumbing.

scumdog
03-10-2017, 05:33 PM
Excellent write-up and photos, a great help to anybody contemplating a similar job.

DKheld
03-10-2017, 06:57 PM
Excellent write-up and photos, a great help to anybody contemplating a similar job.


x2 - looks great.

That'll be another one that can stop on a dime with nine cents change. :D

Eric

OX1
03-18-2017, 05:16 PM
Excellent write-up and photos, a great help to anybody contemplating a similar job.

x2 - looks great.

That'll be another one that can stop on a dime with nine cents change. :D

Eric

Thanks guys. Hope it works out. Would have been done
a month ago if I just went hydroboost. :D

Anyway, got her on my 4 post. That was fun
with only emerg brake. Decided to check
alignment before I tear down suspension.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_115841a.jpg

Heads have to be compensated by rotating
120 degrees twice, which gives head 3
spots in a full circle

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_120141a.jpg

Barely fits with skirts off.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_120122a.jpg

Not my favorite place to jack, but
needed the height to fit turntable
plates under front tires.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_120157a.jpg

Not horrible I guess with shot ball joints and
control arm bushings that aren't even inline
with the control arm rods/bolts anymore.
One on drivers side is not even close.

As usual back then (at least on Classic
Broncos that I'm familiar with, which had
zero caster in the early years), almost
no caster.

You guys normally set camber positive?
I doubt I will, unless it's really recommended
on these SB's.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_121423a.jpg

Toe not very even in the rear, but not
bad for almost 60 years old.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_121446a.jpg

One thing neat is this screen that more
or less tells you how chassis is and if
anything is really bent.

She went down the road real nice, even with
worn front components, so I wasn't expecting
anything drastic. Not bad when you are talking
1/10th's of a degree for axle offset and wheelbase
difference.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/ALIGNMENT/20170318_121722a.jpg

Next up, suspension teardown.

OX1
04-12-2017, 01:28 PM
Got to work on sprucing the front end parts.
Powder coated upper control arm and rods.
High temp tape worked well even over 400F.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170321_150035.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170321_150655.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170321_155819.jpg

Compared 77 bird, 59 bird, and Granada spindles
for geometry. SAI appears to be about the same
between 59 and 77 spindles. The spindle itself is
pushed outboard on 77 (compared to drum brake
spindle), but the WM surface is farther inboard
on a disk brake rotor vs drum, so the distance between
WMS and the SAI line through ball joints, appears to
be about the same.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170326_122913.jpg

Tie rod connection looks very close also for
77 and 59 spindles.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170326_123047.jpg

That little coil spring helper didn't seem like it did much.
Even so, my parts car had a 1/4 inch steel spacer
above the rubber insulator in frame spring
"tower", so I'm going to re-use that and hope
is makes up for lack of that helper. Lets me
use springs that where in there at least, which
are not original (not sure what they are really).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170326_124800.jpg

Great simple tool for balljoint removal

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170326_131706.jpg

Have to love a control arm practically pointing
down and there is still some spring pressure.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170326_133952.jpg

Interesting pic here. The short one is off
my parts car with 390 and 15" wheels/tires.
It sure did not look like it was low in the front
compared to the 59, but those springs sure
are short.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170404_204658.jpg

The short one is a bunch thicker. Wonder
what those springs were made for (or if
custom made??)

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170404_204722.jpg

I POR15'd the area under upper control arm.
Could not decide to do body color or black,
but figured there is no way I would be able to
clean under control arm ever again, so black
it is.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170404_204855.jpg

All the parts (except calipers) ready to go back in.
Sway bar is a Helwig or Addco with adapter brackets
that mount to the same spot as frame bumper mount.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170409_150136.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170409_145901a.jpg

OX1
04-22-2017, 11:14 AM
One side of the suspension together

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/DONE/20170415_133956.jpg

Had to use this spring compressor kit, as both
ends of spring would not even come close to
seating with no spring compressor. Not sure
if that is because of 430 springs?

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/Coil%20Spring%20Compressor.jpg

Not many good spots to fit a spring compressor

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170409_161413.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/SUSPENSION/FRONT%20REBUILD/20170409_161457.jpg

Went to do opposite, side. Lucky I had only
compressed spring about an inch, but tool
just exploded apart. Seems upper end
has a screw on fitting that only has a roll
pin to keep it intact.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111601.jpg

of course it uses some off the wall 11mm
X 1.0 thread, so no one on the planet
had any kind of locknut. Ended
up grinding end lightly and threading
for a 10mm nut.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111727.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111524.jpg

Of course it wasn't that easy, as one
of the ball bearing sets lost 3 of
it's bearings, even though they were
"lightly" caged.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111457.jpg

Once again McMasterCarr to the rescue.
An hour later, of have 50, 5.5mm high
strength ball bearings. :D I'm "sure"
I'll find 47 more uses for these bearings :p

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111749.jpg

and we are good to roll

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MISC%20TRUCK-PARTS%20PICS/TOOLS/CLAMP%20SPRING%20COMPRESSOR/20170421_111914.jpg

Tool seemed to work OK after that. Not
sure if I trust it much after seeing what little
holds that upper end in.

Did not see that style compressor from a quality
source, might have to look harder, as that type
compressor works really well on all the new strut
type springs.

simplyconnected
04-22-2017, 05:17 PM
Thank God you didn't get seriously hurt.

I don't think the 430 has much to do with a difference in spring setting. A few things must happen together:

Your chassis must be elevated enough so the lower 'A' arm can swing free of the spring,
When mounting the spring, make sure your rubber spacer is taped onto the spring's top so it doesn't squirm,
Rotate the spring so the bottom 'end' fits nicely in the pocket provided in the stamping. If rotated wrong, the spring will appear too tall and will never seat properly.

I can tell you why nobody else handles a spring compressor like that. It compresses your entire coil spring from ONE SIDE. That's a recipe for disaster because these springs are designed to support over 600-pounds pressure. If you're looking to compress only one inch or so, that compressor may work but I wouldn't trust it any further.

You did a nice job cutting threads for your 'safety nut'. - Dave

Yadkin
04-22-2017, 09:56 PM
I would not use that spring compressor. Although mine's a different year, my springs act on the upper arm, the compressor I use would probably work. See this post: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100618&postcount=5

I've tried three others on my car, broke two of them, and the OTC is far less scary.

partsetal
04-23-2017, 12:18 PM
The best compressor I've found for this kind of work fits inside the coil spring. In the photo, the one on the left works as is, and the one in the center is used with a slotted heavy disc (not shown) that is slipped between the coils after the screw and hooks are inserted. These are definitely 'old school' and belong to a repair shop that lets me borrow them from time to time. Perhaps there is a similar set-up available today. Carl

OX1
04-24-2017, 10:05 AM
T

Your chassis must be elevated enough so the lower 'A' arm can swing free of the spring,
When mounting the spring, make sure your rubber spacer is taped onto the spring's top so it doesn't squirm,
Rotate the spring so the bottom 'end' fits nicely in the pocket provided in the stamping. If rotated wrong, the spring will appear too tall and will never seat properly.


You did a nice job cutting threads for your 'safety nut'. - Dave

The problem with that spring is none of those things. It is too
long. With the lower end of spring in that small lip
in lower control arm, it required control arm to be
pointed virtually straight down (and being on a lift
that was easily possible).

That moves lower end of spring inboard a bunch.
Then you can not get it even close to seated position in
the upper tower. The outer edge of spring hits the lower,
inner surface of tower. You would need to physically bend
upper end of spring close about 3/4 inch just to get top of it
within 2 inch of top of tower.

Even with spring compressed well over 2", I still had to
use large crow bar to force spring into position on top, while
I started jacking up control arm. Not that easy a task to
do both, by yourself. :cool:

This long spring is reflected in my ride height, which
is above every measurement I could find measuring,
(measuring from center of spindle to lower edge
of wheel well).

Thanks on the thread, down side is that it was pretty easy
to tap, meaning material is just Chinese crappy cast "steel"

I would not use that spring compressor. Although mine's a different year, my springs act on the upper arm, the compressor I use would probably work. See this post: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100618&postcount=5

I've tried three others on my car, broke two of them, and the OTC is far less scary.

I like that one and it's OTC. Even though I am done,
I always like to have just in case tools.
Thanks for the link.


The best compressor I've found for this kind of work fits inside the coil spring. In the photo, the one on the left works as is, and the one in the center is used with a slotted heavy disc (not shown) that is slipped between the coils after the screw and hooks are inserted. These are definitely 'old school' and belong to a repair shop that lets me borrow them from time to time. Perhaps there is a similar set-up available today. Carl

I have both sets of them, and this one too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Action-Clamshell-Spring-Compressor-for-Macpherson-Strut-Auto-Tool-Black-/351610518918

But none of those would work.

Next time, I'll just do this :D

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bqiaca7bK2g/hqdefault.jpg

DKheld
04-24-2017, 10:56 AM
WOW -I've missed some excellent progress - nice work Henry.

Ok - gonna have to find out who was taking pictures over my sholder last time I had my Zip-ties out.

Hey - if it works - and you don't get killed - :D

I do remember having to jack the front of the car up a lot higher than expected when doing mine - something like 33 inches off the floor to get the lower A arm down far enough to release the spring. Luckily I was able to just lower the car and with the engine in (and a little bounce) I was able to install the spindles.

Not sure now if the spindles I had were off a '77 Tbird looking at the ones you have. That's just how they were advertised and I've since sold them so we'll never know. When installed - mine had too much positive camber. In order to adjust it to zero the top bolts on the A arms would have had to be lengthened to add more spacers and then the tires would have been outside the fenders.

http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20161105/b_123848.jpg

Geeez - green with envy on the alignment machine. Currently mine is set with some negative camber. Drove like a dream with the Diamond Back Radials - not so great with the new Coker Classics. Going to have to find a shop and take out some of the camber. Tires are already wearing on the inside with only about 3K miles.

What are your plans for the flex lines to the front calipers?

I Used a GM line and a banjo bolt at the caliper.

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_200431.jpg

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060317/b_044711.jpg

Here's a pic from the web of the Granada line that I first bought. The solid portion was very close to the upper spring perch in a sharp turn and looked like it would be sheared off - plus the line was very tight because it was short so that's why I changed to the GM line and banjo.
http://www.mustangsteve.com/HoseWithWasher.JPG

Thanks for all the great pics.
Reminds me of the days when I was doing my conversion - about 13 years ago :eek:

Eric

OX1
04-24-2017, 09:53 PM
What is your toe set at? Sometimes can get away with
more camber if you set toe at dead zero. Alignment
machine is mixed blessing, as now you have to do
every alignment yourself. :D

Painted calipers with POR-15 caliper paint.
Never tried that paint from them, but I
love my nomral gloss black POR-15, so
figured I'd give it a shot. It is not as thick
as the regular POR-15, so might need
multiple coats (I only did one coat).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/CALIPERS%20FLEX%20LINES/20170411_172553.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/CALIPERS%20FLEX%20LINES/20170422_063123.jpg

Lines I'm using came off the parts car, they
are DOT approvd SS lines. They route a little
weird, but I already have them.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/CALIPERS%20FLEX%20LINES/20170424_201927.jpg

13 years?, that's quite a while ago. Think I was
working on getting Unimog axles on my bronco
back then. What a nightmare project that was.

Had to make my own spring and shock mounts,
new motor mount perches, 3 link front suspension,
custom drag link and track bar, and driveshafts.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/404/DONE/DCP02193a.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/404/DONE/DCP02185a.jpg

Heck I even had to modify front diff housing
so diff didn't hit oil pan.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/404/NEW%20HOUSING/DCP01231a.jpg

Anyway, I digress:p






Geeez - green with envy on the alignment machine. Currently mine is set with some negative camber. Drove like a dream with the Diamond Back Radials - not so great with the new Coker Classics. Going to have to find a shop and take out some of the camber. Tires are already wearing on the inside with only about 3K miles.

What are your plans for the flex lines to the front calipers?

Thanks for all the great pics.
Reminds me of the days when I was doing my conversion - about 13 years ago :eek:

Eric

simplyconnected
04-24-2017, 11:55 PM
I'm a big believer in "Paint Over Rust" (POR-15, which is a rust converter) but it breaks down with UV (sunlight) so I paint over it. I like Rustoleum BBQ paint because it's high temp, very available and reasonably priced. One great feature of BBQ paint is how quick it dries. I also like the flat look, especially inside wheels. It works great on drums as well.

Yadkin
04-25-2017, 08:39 AM
I'm a big believer in "Paint Over Rust" (POR-15, which is a rust converter) but it breaks down with UV (sunlight) so I paint over it. I like Rustoleum BBQ paint because it's high temp, very available and reasonably priced. One great feature of BBQ paint is how quick it dries. I also like the flat look, especially inside wheels. It works great on drums as well.

One irate poster on another forum blasted me for suggesting such heresy- using cheap paints on restoration projects. Thirty years ago I used a product called Naval Jelly to convert the rust left over after scraping and wire brushing the entire underside of my car, prior to brush-painting it with Rustoleum rusty metal red primer from a one gallon can. All the structural brackets, such as the front bumper struts below, I treated with Naval then painted with plow paint from a farm supply store. These parts that have not been subsequently over-painted are still looking good.

I probably purchased three or four spray cans of the plow paint back then for less than $3 per can. The last can was half used and I stored it in the trunk of the car, and there is it sat for 30 years until I resurrected the project and used up the rest of it to make some of the more visible brackets a more uniform finish.

DKheld
04-25-2017, 11:02 AM
Not sure on the toe but remember the fellow telling me he was setting the car up as original then would adjust from there. Guessing the OEM setting for toe on the Tbird was 0 deg. Probably told the story but the shop aligning my car was supposed to give me a print out of the settings - lots of building going on in the area and within a few weeks of doing my alignment they had an outrageous offer on the property. I went back to get the settings because I was satisfied with the way it drove and they were closed for good.
One of these days Ill get it to a new shop around here and get both before and after settings. Was only a 2 wheel alignment. Even though you have to do the alignments yourself - at least you know they are done right (and if not you know who to blame - :D )

Your BroncoMog sounds like my brake conversion - dive in and just wing it.
Yep - around 2004 - this was long before the Scarebird brackets etc and virtually no info other than some guy saying he had "heard" of it done like this. Lost of trial and error but eventually "got-er-done".
That's a nice looking Bronco project - still have it?

x4 on the POR although I seldom "paint over rust".
When I restore MGA's......
http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20110904/b_075102.jpg
the body comes off the frame.....
http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120315/b_150858.jpg
and I media blast the whole thing.....
http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120318/b_193014.jpg
then use POR black - Put the stuff on with a brush and it looks like it's been sprayed.......
http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120520/b_182946.jpg
Do most of the parts that way.
On the last one I've started spraying the frame with Rustoleum from a rattle-can after the POR. Takes about 4 of the larger cans with "25% more" paint. Doing for UV protection although I tell everyone the only time the frame on these cars will be exposed to UV is if the car has been flipped over.

Even paint the engines with POR MG Maroon and a brush. That stuff lays down so good you would think it was sprayed. Look at that intake reflection in the valve cover.
http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130203/b_170351.jpg

I could probably drive under the BroncoMog witout touching the frame....
http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120617/180631.jpg

Oh well - like you say - guess we better get back to the brakes....

OX1
04-26-2017, 08:45 PM
I'm a big believer in "Paint Over Rust" (POR-15, which is a rust converter) but it breaks down with UV (sunlight) so I paint over it. I like Rustoleum BBQ paint because it's high temp, very available and reasonably priced. One great feature of BBQ paint is how quick it dries. I also like the flat look, especially inside wheels. It works great on drums as well.

I kind of forgot about BBQ paint, but I have used it in the
past also. Easily holds up to 500 degrees too!!


That's a nice looking Bronco project - still have it?

x4 on the POR although I seldom "paint over rust".
When I restore MGA's......

then use POR black - Put the stuff on with a brush and it looks like it's been sprayed.......
way.
On the last one I've started spraying the frame with Rustoleum from a rattle-can after the POR. Takes about 4 of the larger cans with "25% more" paint. Doing for UV protection although I tell everyone the only time the frame on these cars will be exposed to UV is if the car has been flipped over.

Even paint the engines with POR MG Maroon and a brush. That stuff lays down so good you would think it was sprayed. Look at that intake reflection in the valve cover.
http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130203/b_170351.jpg

I could probably drive under the BroncoMog witout touching the frame....
Oh well - like you say - guess we better get back to the brakes....

Yup, still have her, but she is a bit more beat up now.
The downside of having a hobby where you are guaranteed
to run into things. Did get some competition compound
"stickies" tires recently, unbelievable improvement. Guess
they better have been @ $3200 a set.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/SX%2043-S/2014-06-26_15-01-59_308a.jpg

Absolutely incredible project :). Great job!!!

And I didn't even know they had POR-15 in red,
but I agree, smooths out even better than the powder
coat I did recently. And the POR-15 is much more
abrasion resistant than powder coat.

Getting back to SB's. I stumbled on the exact
old style looking comb valve in with the parts
from the disk brakes stuff that came off my parts
car. Even the valve for bleeding the front brakes still
worked fine. So I cleaned here up and painted her
with rust converter flat spray paint.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170409_165407.jpg

Dave hooked me up with some of the super
flexy hard brake line material
(Thanks!! Dave)

So I got the comb valve mounted and the front
and rear brake lines run.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170425_204002.jpg

I had the drivers side line running right along
top of steering box, right near inner fender
(this spot)

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170425_204106.jpg

but it looked hokey there and the routing was
not the best. Ended up drilling hole in inner fender
and using a grommet to route line through.
Still not the best routing, but better than the other
way.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170425_194753.jpg

Put the Bootser/MC back in and ran lines from
MC to comb valve. Need to get some kind
of supports for the lines, not sure what I
want to use yet.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170426_185454.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/COMB%20PROP%20VALVE%20HARD%20LINES/20170426_185539.jpg

Also made a heat shield for under the MC.
Had some SS sheet a friend gave me a while
back. Still on the fence if I want to paint it.
It's almost too nice to do it, but the SS does
not really go with the "trying to keep it period
correct" looking:)

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/MC%20HEAT%20SHIELD/20170426_185612.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/MC%20HEAT%20SHIELD/20170426_185623.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/MC%20HEAT%20SHIELD/20170426_185819.jpg

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-BIRD/60%20DISK%20BRAKE%20CONVERSION/MC%20HEAT%20SHIELD/20170426_185842.jpg