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stubbie
12-18-2015, 10:02 AM
Bought an Idler Arm Pulley for my 64 Tbird and attempted to fit it today. It appears to be out of alignment. Is it possible to add a shim to the adjuster side to straighten it up or is there a problem with the main bracket. Thanks
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/fbf22896-517d-4008-af5b-a6e312012ca6_zpsrwajhp28.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Stubbie10/media/fbf22896-517d-4008-af5b-a6e312012ca6_zpsrwajhp28.jpg.html)

jopizz
12-18-2015, 10:52 AM
It looks to me like there's a problem with the main bracket. That should be straight up and down and not cocked as it appears.

John

Yadkin
12-18-2015, 12:37 PM
The steel bracket is bent. Good news is you can heat it red and bend it right (possibly). Let it cool in air, don't quench it in water.

stubbie
12-18-2015, 06:34 PM
My initial thought was that the bracket was bent. I also see that there is an oval shape plate missing from the back of it. Does one of those bolts also hold the waterpump on?
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/46a7d02b-6373-4e29-8219-551fdd390084_zpsgbwm2sqn.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Stubbie10/media/46a7d02b-6373-4e29-8219-551fdd390084_zpsgbwm2sqn.jpg.html)

stubbie
12-18-2015, 06:50 PM
Don't know if you can tell if it's bent from this pic.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/b8c79e11-e9df-4c59-a073-cbae541264eb_zpslsdgjxsg.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Stubbie10/media/b8c79e11-e9df-4c59-a073-cbae541264eb_zpslsdgjxsg.jpg.html)

bird 60
12-18-2015, 09:28 PM
I could be wrong but, compare your old idle arm pulley to your old one. my guess it's the wrong pulley. The bracket is as solid as, & it doesn't appear to be bent.

Chris.....From OZ.

jopizz
12-18-2015, 09:44 PM
He has the correct pulley. My guess is that the main bracket is installed incorrectly. Either it has a spacer that it shouldn't have or it's in the wrong place. The other possibility is that you have the wrong water pump and the mounting sticks out too far.

John

bird 60
12-19-2015, 12:54 AM
John, I'm assuming that all that had to be replaced was the pulley. If no adjustments were made other than taking one pulley out & replacing with the new one, it should fit perfectly. On the other hand like you mentioned, If the bracket had been taken out & not replaced properly there'd be a problem.:eek:

Chris....From OZ.

stubbie
12-19-2015, 09:02 AM
I didn't have an Idler Pulley when I got this car. I just bought one for a 64 from The Birds Nest and it just arrived last week. This motor had a sticker on it that said it was replaced in 1974 or 77 I can't remember which. Would that explain perhaps the different setup? I'll see if I can get a part number from the water pump. The only parts I can see that are missing are, Spacer C4MA10A370A and Brace C4SA2888A

simplyconnected
12-19-2015, 09:22 AM
It's not bent. You simply don't have it mounted w/correct spacers and bolts. Your top mounting is not attached at all.

Look at the Ford Illustration. The purpose of this pulley is to keep the belt OFF the water pump. Yes there are two sheaves on the water pump and two on the damper pulleys but if you put two belts on both, one belt will want to go faster than the other which causes heat, squeal and premature belt failure. The solution is to run with only ONE belt riding on both pulleys. Then, let the empty pulleys drive other devices (like p/s pump and A/C compressor).

I hope I explained this well enough to help you. - Dave

jopizz
12-19-2015, 10:46 AM
The purpose of this pulley is to keep the belt OFF the water pump.

I never said the belt goes around the water pump. I meant the bracket gets bolted to the water pump housing. If he has the incorrect one that's what may be causing it to be cocked and the top mounting not to be lined up.

John

simplyconnected
12-19-2015, 04:42 PM
John, I'm simply going by what I see in Stubbie's picture, and comparing it to the Ford Illustration.

stubbie
12-19-2015, 07:59 PM
Sorry Dave I obviously don't follow.

"You simply don't have it mounted w/correct spacers and bolts".

I have a bolt through the adjuster slot. Unfortunately I didn't have a long enough bolt for the hole that goes into the water pump but it has a bolt in there and the idler pulley is sitting flush against the bracket. Where do I need to put the spacers?

"The purpose of this pulley is to keep the belt OFF the water pump".

Realize this.

"Yes there are two sheaves on the water pump and two on the damper pulleys but if you put two belts on both, one belt will want to go faster than the other which causes heat, squeal and premature belt failure".

Why would I want to put two belts on both? Sorry I don't understand this.

"The solution is to run with only ONE belt riding on both pulleys".

I have one belt running the alternator and one belt running the power steering pump. There is a third damper pulley that will have one belt running the air conditioning.
Thanks

jopizz
12-19-2015, 11:13 PM
Unfortunately the parts diagram doesn't give a clear picture of how the idler bracket mounts to the water pump. You may just have to remove the bracket and remove the alternator and start from scratch. Try and get the bracket as even as possible so the idler pulley lines up with the crank pulley and the compressor. Then remount the alternator. I'm not sure where that oblong spacer goes but it should be obvious if a spacer is missing. It can only go between the bracket and the water pump. You can probably use some washers instead. If you can't get the bracket to sit even on the water pump you may have the wrong pump. The pump design was changed in 1965 so if you have a later pump that may be why the bracket doesn't sit flat. The idler pulley was moved to the other side of the water pump in 1965 and was part of the power steering bracket.

John

stubbie
12-20-2015, 09:08 AM
John I think you are correct.
I think I've found the problem. It appears that the newer water pumps (that I must have) has a longer section out front on the left were the bracket attaches. This then sets the idler pulley at an angle. I think what is needed is either another piece of steel with a slot the same shape as the tension adjuster on the idler pulley to act like a shim or a spacer on the bolt that holds the alternator.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/Water20Pump_zpsb8cgofwf.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Stubbie10/media/Water20Pump_zpsb8cgofwf.jpg.html)

jopizz
12-20-2015, 10:32 AM
Try putting a nut or some washers on the alternator bolt to space it out. Then see if the idler pulley lines up correctly. If not you may need to get a little more creative.

John

simplyconnected
12-20-2015, 10:48 AM
Sorry Dave I obviously don't follow.

You simply don't have it mounted w/correct spacers and bolts.

I have a bolt through the adjuster slot. Unfortunately I didn't have a long enough bolt for the hole that goes into the water pump but it has a bolt in there and the idler pulley is sitting flush against the bracket. Where do I need to put the spacers?

The purpose of this pulley is to keep the belt OFF the water pump.

Realize this.

Yes there are two sheaves on the water pump and two on the damper pulleys but if you put two belts on both, one belt will want to go faster than the other which causes heat, squeal and premature belt failure.

Why would I want to put two belts on both? Sorry I don't understand this.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/b8c79e11-e9df-4c59-a073-cbae541264eb_zpslsdgjxsg.jpg

Stubbie, this is YOUR picture. How many belts are common to both pulleys? I count two and they will buck each other if the pulleys are not exactly the same diameter or the belts aren't exactly the same. Refer to the Ford Illustration: ONE belt is common to both pulleys. (We've been here before with other members who wondered why new belts were getting hot, smelling bad and failing.)

The solution is to run with only ONE belt riding on both pulleys.

I have one belt running the alternator and one belt running the power steering pump. There is a third damper pulley that will have one belt running the air conditioning.
Thanks Yes, and how are they routed?

...I think what is needed is either another piece of steel with a slot the same shape as the tension adjuster on the idler pulley to act like a shim or a spacer on the bolt that holds the alternator.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd464/Stubbie10/Water20Pump_zpsb8cgofwf.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Stubbie10/media/Water20Pump_zpsb8cgofwf.jpg.html)

This picture explains why you need a spacer. John suggested washers (which work just fine) and to be creative in your fabrication. I agree. For a spacer, cut a length of water pipe to the exact length. Understand my post, now? Make sure your belts and pulleys line up.
- Dave

stubbie
12-30-2015, 07:28 PM
Do you guys think it would be best to get the correct water pump instead of trying to correct the faults with this one?
If so there is one on eBay for sale at the moment. I would have to confirm with him some details as what is stamped on the pump is different to what is on the box in his picture.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMANUFACTURED-61-62-63-64-Ford-Galaxie-Thunderbird-Water-Pump-C4AZ-8501-B-/281727465338?hash=item419843f77a:g:4kUAAOSwD0lUdLf s&vxp=mtr

jopizz
12-30-2015, 08:30 PM
Just buy one from Rock Auto. It'll be cheaper than what he's charging and you get a 5% discount. Also it's new and not reconditioned.

John