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View Full Version : 1960 with a/c best way to keep the engine running cool in the heat of UAE?


uaesquarebird
05-22-2015, 03:23 AM
Sorry for all my questions,
Im nearly ready to get my car on the road!

Can anyone advise me on the best radiator / fan kit to purchase for my 1960 with a/c?
I've only run it for about 20mins in the workshop but it gets very hot (over 3/4 on the gauge).
Think i need to upgrade the rad and fan as the temperature here in Dubai is already near 40C and rising.
Is it worth buying a fan shroud?

Thanks Rob.

YellowRose
05-22-2015, 03:51 AM
Hi Rob, one of the best things you could do is probably to flush that radiator really well, to make sure it as as clean inside as you can get it. Make sure your thermostat is working properly, and most will probably say to make sure it has a rating of 180. As for what I did with my Squarebird, after my radiator was flushed and cleaned professionally and I think they re-cored it also, (That was several years ago) I added a metal shroud off a Bulletbird, as I recall, and added a six bladed flex fan. I have not had a problem since. If you are thinking of putting on an electric fan behind the radiator, I will let some of the others on here suggest what you might get. Guys, keep in mind that Rob is in the Middle East and he is not likely to find a scrap yard full of old Fords to pull parts off of in the UAE.... Rob, you are going to need a good 3 wire 100amp alternator also, if you are going to go the electric fan route... Thats my 2 cents, for whatever it is worth..

simplyconnected
05-22-2015, 07:11 AM
It's a 'cooling system', meaning, all the components need to function well. Any one component failure will tax the other components beyond their limits.

For example, if your heat riser valve is stuck shut, all the exhaust gasses from the passenger side will cross over to the driver's side via the intake manifold. That's just more heat the cooling system must get rid of.

Your engine was not designed to sit at idle speeds for very long. The engine needs to move above 1,500 rpm so the water pump can push coolant, the fan can draw air and car speed will help push air through the radiator. If you intend on sitting idle for long, buy an electric fan and an alternator over 100-amps. Alternators under 100-amps do not deliver enough amps at idle speeds; they cool your engine but drain your battery.

Your engine was made to burn LEADED gas. If you can find any, use it to help keep your temperature down. If you can only find unleaded gas, retard your timing. At the expense of a few horsepower, your car will start easier and run cooler. - Dave

Dakota Boy
05-22-2015, 08:37 AM
have you tried a coolant additive like Water Wetter?

I have some posts on this site show the electric fan that I installed. A late 90's Ford Contour dual fan fits the stock radiator very nicely,
but you will need a good alternator. I think I had a 60amp, and went up to somewhere around a 110amp unit. I bought the fan unit brand new from RockAuto for somewhere around 100 USD.

Yadkin
05-22-2015, 11:07 AM
Along with a good flush the best way to keep the engine cool, in my opinion, is to install an electric fan with a good multi-speed controller. A good fan, though, draws a boatload of amps, more than the OEM alternator can handle, and more than the OEM wiring can handle without important modifications.

dgs
05-25-2015, 06:38 PM
I believe the US Ford Contour was called the Mondeo elsewhere.

Oh, and the 40 degrees C he mentioned is 104 F. :eek:

uaesquarebird
05-26-2015, 04:15 PM
thank you all for your help and advise.
im gonna have to look into the alternator and electric fans i think as the temp is gonna be up 50 come the summer.
Do any companys in the US do a kit, alternator, fans relays?

It seems most classic cars are put into hiding until the winter!

Yadkin
05-27-2015, 01:13 AM
I don't know of a kit specifically for your car, but my research pointed me to using a fan from a Lincoln Mark VIII. Its much more powerful than aftermarket fans of comparable price. Mine draws 55 amps at 14 volts.since the OE alternator put of 40, that means a 100 amp alternator is required, and that requires modifications to the electical system.

simplyconnected
05-27-2015, 06:01 AM
...that requires modifications to the electical system.A modern alternator simply connects to your battery + terminal with a fuse anywhere in series. The fuse is there to protect your battery and wiring in case one of the diodes in your alternator shorts to ground. Instead of cooking wires, the fuse blows but the battery still runs the car.

There is one small wire that we call a "sense" wire. It's usually the wire from your GEN light. It tells your alternator that your key is on so the alt can start developing power immediately.

I find, OEM fans work the best. They are balanced properly and they can be reversed. So I pick a car in the bone yard that has an electric fan and an alternator. That way you know they are designed to work with each other. - Dave

YellowRose
05-27-2015, 11:27 AM
Keep in mind that it is probably gonna be difficult for Rob to find a bone yard in Dubia that has the kind of cars in it that he will need to find to pull parts from.....

Yadkin
05-27-2015, 12:14 PM
A modern alternator simply connects to your battery + terminal with a fuse anywhere in series. The fuse is there to protect your battery and wiring in case one of the diodes in your alternator shorts to ground. Instead of cooking wires, the fuse blows but the battery still runs the car.

There is one small wire that we call a "sense" wire. It's usually the wire from your GEN light. It tells your alternator that your key is on so the alt can start developing power immediately.

I find, OEM fans work the best. They are balanced properly and they can be reversed. So I pick a car in the bone yard that has an electric fan and an alternator. That way you know they are designed to work with each other. - Dave

I'm not sure how the '60 is wired, but my '64 has a shunt type ammeter installed as one of the four gauges. All of the alternator power goes through it before the power gets distributed to the rest of the car. I don't see a fuse in that circuit.

simplyconnected
05-28-2015, 12:39 AM
Steve, if you have an alternator, install a fuse. It's cheap insurance in case a diode or SCR shorts to ground. Think about it... a dead short to ground will send all your battery power through the conductors between the alternator and battery. This could happen at any time, day or night. There is no shut-off between the battery and your alternator.

If your alt ouputs 75-amps, use a 100-amp fuse. If your alt outputs 125-amps use a 150-amp fuse. The idea is to protect the wire because that is the real function of ALL fuses. Burned wires start fires.

Fuses are normally mounted on the fender apron, close to the starter solenoid. Alternator wiring normally goes to this area so adding a fuse is easy to do.

I was in a motorcycle shop one time where they had a sign above helmets that were for sale. The sign read, "If you have a $50 head, buy a $50 helmet." This is one area where 'saving money' is foolish. If your community wants to save a lot of money, eliminate the fire department (but don't have a fire).

And yes, all modern cars have a fuse on the alternator wiring. - Dave

Yadkin
05-28-2015, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the heads up Dave. I have this breaker installed where the starter solenoid used to be but had the alternator on the same post as the battery. I changed it out this morning. Now, the top post is the batter and starter, and the bottom post is the alternator and main panel.

uaesquarebird
07-20-2015, 11:39 AM
Its finally on the road!
So I've flushed out and replaced the coolant, purchased and fitted the fan shroud and whilst moving without the a/c on the car is fine even at the current 45c heat.
Sadly once in traffic it overheats so i need an alternator and fan.

I've looked at the ready made kit, but they are only 65amps - no where near what i require.
Can anyone recommend a know proven alternator / fan combo to use. I will have to order it blind from the US so as much detail as possible would be greatly appreciated.



Many thanks
Rob.

YellowRose
07-20-2015, 12:49 PM
Rob needs someone to provide him with brand names, stock numbers of a fan or fans, a good 110+amp alternator he can rely on, and whatever controller or whatever you call it, that runs those fans, and pricing. Considering he is in the middle of nowhere, he cant run down to his local pick and pull in the UAE and grab them off an old Ford car. Some of you on here knows what fans off the shelf will fit on a '60 Tbird, and what is the best hi amp alt and other components to get. Can we help him out?

Since I last wrote that, I have been doing some research with Rock Auto regarding components he might need. I will post them shortly.

What I am going to post here is based on the information that Greg ~ Dakota Boy posted on the first page of this thread. He said he installed a dual fan system from a late 90's Ford Contour and it was a good fit on his OEM radiator on his Squarebird. With that thought in mind, I talked with Rock Auto and they helped me locate information on parts that Rob may need to add electric fans to his Squarebird. Here is what I came up with, but, Greg, or others, are going to have to tell Rob what all he will need to make this work. Right now, I have information on the fans, a cooling fan controller (if needed), a radiator fan resistor (if needed), and a 130Amp alternator.

The following information is based on a 1999 Ford Contour 2.5L V6

Under that section of Rock Auto, I found the Alternator/Generator section
There I found a new Alternator with the heart sign next to it. I am told that is a recommended unit when you see the heart sign. That alternator is a Tyco #207775 OE Manufacture Ford 130A, pulley type: w/6 groove Pulley for $100.79. If anyone has a better choice for the alternator, please let us know. I gather this is a 3 wire alt, with internal regulator, but I am not sure.

Then I found the dual fans, under the Radiator Fan Assembly section. There were several listed, but the one with the heart sign was the Dorman #620104 for $102.79, or check the others listed also, but mostly higher priced.

Then under Cooling System, I found the Cooling Fan Controller by Four Seasons #35879, Premium Adjustable Fan Controller, Push-in Type for $91.79. I am assuming he will need this, but ya'll can confirm that.

There is also, under Cooling System, a Radiator Fan Resistor, Dorman #902219 for $25.89, or a Airtex/Wells #6R1037 for $29.79. You will have to tell him if he needs that.

Rock Auto gives us a 5% discount on all online orders. So there ya go. Please let him know if this helps and is what he needs. If not, please tell him what to consider getting. Before you order anything, Rob, lets see what else is said about things you will need, like pulleys, or not need.

Rob, I talked with Larry at C.R.A.P. regarding his 352 mounting bracket. It will work with a 1 wire 1st Generation Ford Alternator, but it is my understanding that most of them are rated no more than 70A. You are probably going to need a 100+amp alt, which probably means you would have to modify your existing generator mount to hang a 3 wire alt on... I have been trying to find more information for you, and I hope more who have been down this road will chip in and tell us more about how they did it.

uaesquarebird
07-20-2015, 02:32 PM
Thank you Yellow rose for all the effort and info!
much appreciated.

jopizz
07-20-2015, 02:46 PM
The problem with adding an alternator is not the alternator itself. The problem is mounting it to a 352 without the factory hole drilled for the alternator bracket. Any alternator of the correct amperage can be made to work. C.R.A.P. makes a bracket that will work with the older 352's but you are limited to a Ford 1G style alternator. If you want to use the existing generator brackets you will have to fabricate adapter brackets. There are aftermarket adapter brackets that will mount to your generator brackets but they are very flimsy and have a tendency to twist under load and lose tension.

John

YellowRose
07-20-2015, 06:42 PM
At Dave's suggestion, I called Speedway Motors to get some information that might be of help to Rob. Unfortunately, I was not able to answer some of their questions due to lack of knowledge on my part. What size is the radiator on that Squarebird, was one of them. When does it overheat? I read him what Rob posted. After talking with them for awhile, he said besides a good electric fan, it sounds like a Trinary Switch would be needed, a fan relay, a Sending Switch Unit, to know when to kick in and out the fans, I guess, and a 40amp Relay. I probably confused him more than he confused me.... Sorry Rob, I am trying to help here, but I don't think I am doing very well. I hope some of the guys who have already done this would step in and give you some good information on how to go about doing this.

uaesquarebird
07-23-2015, 09:44 AM
Your willing to help in amazing! - thanks again.

The car runs at about two thirds up on the gauge when traveling, but within 5 mins of standing it heads towards the max, once moving again it comes back down.
When I park up it ussually spits out 100ml from the overflow hose on the rad, due to the heavy traffic i have to sit in on the way home.

Whilst reseaching i came across a us company that do various different types of rad and electric fan kits to match - will see if i can find the name of the company.

YellowRose
07-23-2015, 10:43 AM
Sorry, I was not able to find out more information for you. I was hoping those who have added an electric fan and what else is needed, would chime in and give you all the information for the parts you were going to have to gather up. I can provide you with pix of the modification that my mechanic made to my generator mounting bracket to convert it to hold an alternator. So far, it has worked well. As for overflow from the expansion tank, check the level of the fluid in the tank. You only want it about a fourth full, certainly not half or nearly full. The idea is to allow fluid to expand in the tank without it filling up and spilling out.

Dan Leavens
07-23-2015, 06:12 PM
Rob:Ray's suggestion of only having your expansion tank filled to a 1/4 does have some merit. On my 60 with AC with over 1/2 full of fuid,it used to do the same thing and spit out a fair bit:eek: I flushed out the rad/ inspected the hoses for pin hole leaks and only filled to about a 1/4.

On a recent rather large S&S my wife and I attended and very hot,we had to idle for a length of time to be positioned by categories. As my expansion tank had less fluid in it and with the AC on there was no overheating:D