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Ford351c594
04-23-2015, 05:59 PM
Which Granada spindles do you use again? Any other modification needed? I know it is a constantly asked question and I feel bad asking it. LOL


Especially after I read this post from a way back. LOL

http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13426

YellowRose
04-23-2015, 08:27 PM
Ryan, if you are considering doing a disc brake conversion, you might not want to go the Granada spindle route. Look at the comments in Project Snowbird right below your thread to see the comments about why not... The details are there and also in the Members Conference Forum.

DKheld
04-24-2015, 09:39 AM
Mid 70's Granada ( not sure of the exact years - believe it's 72-78? - and will need to have the lower ball joint holes enlarged to fit the stock Tbird ball joint) or mid 70's Lincoln Versailles (been told these have the correct size lower ball joint hole but no personal experience with the Lincoln).

I have also been told that there were Granada's with drum brakes so to be sure to get the right spindles - not sure this info is correct but thought I would mention.

Problems.....

1). Alignment. Most shops will want to use the stock Tbird numbers but they won't work because it will have the Granada spindles so they will be scratching their head.
One of these days I plan on getting to an alignment shop and get them to record my settings. Mine drives great but the shop that did the work went out of business. Of course my settings would probably only work for the same equipment (Granada spindles, same tire size, LTD wheels etc).
2). Brake hoses. I couldn't make the stock Granada hoses work on mine - there is a solid metal sleeve that I'm sure helps keep the hose away from something on the Granada but points it right at the spring pearch on the Tbird. Had to use GM flex hoses and banjo bolts.
3). Interference. My Granada rotors rub on something in a hard turn - might be the backing plates which most folks leave off. Happens very seldom in normal driving but bothers me.
4). Availability. I bet it would be hard to find a set of Granada or Versailles spindles these days if one were damaged.

About the 2 inch drop.......I only noticed about a 1/2 inch drop if that much.

For me the spindles were the easy part. It was all the plumbing, master cyl, booster mods, brake light switch etc that took the most time. Of course the Scarebird brackets were not available when I did mine 12 years ago.

I'll admit - I love driving my car with the disc brakes - Granada or not.

Eric

http://media4.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060317/b_032551.jpg

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20080828/075326.jpg

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060317/b_044711.jpg

http://media4.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20080828/075244.jpg

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_190747.jpg

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20060712/b_190627.jpg

Ford351c594
04-24-2015, 08:04 PM
Well poop! I have already purchased the Wilwood front brake kit, once I get clarification on if the stock in dash booster will work with Wilwood's master cylinder or not I will be golden on brakes. They actually told me I could just use the stock master cylinder as long as I stay with the 4 piston caliper. I may have issues with volume if I go with rear disk at some point, but I'll deal with that later.

I was looking more for the drop without cutting the spring or using air bags. I originally wanted to bag it, but the with all the info I am gathering on wheel and tire fitment I think I have crushed the idea of using air bags.

simplyconnected
04-25-2015, 07:43 AM
Ryan, there are a few ways to skin this cat. None of them are wrong but I urge you to think about modern cars and how the major car companies do brakes.

Rear brakes only stop about 15% while the front brakes do 85% of all your braking power. That is why many new cars and SUVs still use drum brakes in the rear. Disks simply aren't needed in the rear. It's like a bicycle with hand brakes; the rear simply slides the back tire but the front brake will put you over the bars.

Most cars have single-piston calipers simply because there are fewer parts to go wrong and you really don't need more than one piston per disk. Granada calipers are no exception.

I used Granada spindles on my '55 Ford and Scarebird brackets (with S-10 calipers) on our '59 Galaxie. They both work just as well and I have no preference. I used Scarebird brackets because I want to keep the steering geometry stock on the '59. It has the same spindles as your Squarebird.

Another consideration is the sway bar. Many of our members have gone to a 1-1/8" anti-sway bar in the front. That means your calipers need to be behind the wheel and away from the sway bar.

Some of our members using the Scarebird brackets are also using Granada style 14" wheels. They fit with no alteration. Ray Clark has this setup with dog dish hubcaps and beauty rings. They look great. Stock 'sunburst' full hubcaps totally hide rotors on these wheels and they look original.

Granada spindles also fit 14" Granada wheels.

For power assist, both style disk brakes need a two-stage 8" booster/dual master with a combination proportioning valve. - Dave

dgs
04-25-2015, 01:52 PM
Most new cars except the bottom feeders use 4 wheel disks these days. For example, the Fiesta is disc/drum (except the performance ST model), the lower trim Focuses (Focii?) are disc/drum but mid level and higher are all discs while the Fusion and up are all 4 wheel discs. All their trucks, SUVs and vans are 4 wheel discs. Same kind of thing seems true at other manufacturers as well.

What I hear as well is newer cars put more brake power to the rear than the older ones do, to the point that the rear brakes tend to go out first. My 2005 Mazda3 (4 wheel discs) needed rear brakes at 95K (I do a lot of highway driving), the fronts went to 116K and still had some meat on the pads. My friend who's a Chevy dealer service manager confirms that is the current trend. The fronts still do the heavy lifting, but the rears are doing more work on newer cars.

That said, it has little bearing on our cars, just thought it was interesting.

simplyconnected
04-25-2015, 02:52 PM
My wife's 2010 Ford Escape has drum rear brakes. They are ABS and small by design because having locked up rear wheels is a real bad thing. Consider Michigan winters and wet leaves in the fall.

If you retrofit rear disks they won't stop any better than drum brakes and you might lose your emergency brake system.

Normally, I am all for modern methods and technology but I see no stopping advantage in having rear disk brakes. I've never heard of rear drums fading either.

I have rear disks on my Escort, what a PITA. Ford criss-crossed the brake lines on that car so it has double the plumbing. Yes, I had to change brake lines two winters ago because the originals rusted through. - Dave

dgs
04-26-2015, 05:05 PM
3 of our 4 daily drivers (2007 Prius, 2003 Mazda Protege and 1998 Escort) have rear drums. Only the 2005 Mazda3 has rear disks.

Rear disks make the parking brake much more difficult and less effective. My Mazda3's parking brake is pretty wimpy compared to my other cars. It also makes changing the pads more complicated, although still easier than changing shoes on drum brakes. I've always felt like I needed a third hand when doing drum brakes.

Agreed that there seems to be no functional advantage to rear drums. On modern cars I wonder if it's a marketing thing. The customer thinks all disks are better, so they use them. It's possible that modern vehicles with computer controlled ABS and advances in engineering can get better use out of the rear brakes and therefore can make use of disk's advantages. I doubt it's a cost thing as they'd show up on the cheap cars too.

Aesthetically, if you've got big wheels, the disks will look better, but they won't stop any better on our cars.

Ford351c594
04-27-2015, 11:24 AM
oh no doubt. base model silver-a-do's still have rear drum. I personally thing it is about cost on newer cars. The cost of adding rear disk to the rear could cost 30 or 40 dollars per unit and that is 10's of millions of dollars across the product line.

I have also read that with the CARB rules most are switching due to wight savings. Every little bit helps when you have to conform to fuel economy standards....

now for me in my Tbird. It would be 100% for the "looks" of rear disk.

RustyNCa
04-27-2015, 12:15 PM
Well poop! I have already purchased the Wilwood front brake kit, once I get clarification on if the stock in dash booster will work with Wilwood's master cylinder or not I will be golden on brakes. They actually told me I could just use the stock master cylinder as long as I stay with the 4 piston caliper. I may have issues with volume if I go with rear disk at some point, but I'll deal with that later.

I was looking more for the drop without cutting the spring or using air bags. I originally wanted to bag it, but the with all the info I am gathering on wheel and tire fitment I think I have crushed the idea of using air bags.

Which Wilwood kit did you get? I also wouldn't worry about cutting the springs, there is a lot of spring there to cut, I don't remember how much I cut ours anymore, but I did it twice, first time wasn't enough. But the car aligns fine and drive nice.

Here is what our Wilwood's look like on our 58.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/th_diskP_00005.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/diskP_00005.jpg.html)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/th_20141221_142001_zps57309de6.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20141221_142001_zps57309de6.jpg.html)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/th_P_00154.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/P_00154.jpg.html)

Ford351c594
04-28-2015, 12:32 PM
I got the classic dynalite. Not installed yet. just sitting in boxes still....